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Proof Mind is Fundamental and Matter Doesn't Exist
RE: Proof Mind is Fundamental and Matter Doesn't Exist
(September 17, 2015 at 5:18 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Already been offered, in my first response.  No sense going over it again, and of course other members have done it to death.  Just for starters, make your argument follow, or stop using the word "therefor" - as has already been mentioned by myself and others.  I'm sure there's more, that you've thought more through..it just didn't make it to the page.  Perhaps seeing that would fill in those gaps.  IDK.

i'm saying your criticism or whatever is was there wasn't adding anything to the conversation. the argument does follow. most people criticize premise 1, not the logic.

Rhythm Wrote:-If- what you are interested in is establishing the truth of the statement -all is mind-, or a that this life is a sim, physical reductivism gives you a better point from which to argue that (though it's equally true from a multitude of other POVs).  A point from which you can provide demonstrations and evidence, rather than asking someone to accept something as a given for sake of argument.  That's all.
I think you'll have to define physical reductivism a little better. the only close reference is to physical reductionism, but that's the belief cognition can be reduced to the underlying biological mechanisms of the brain... which would be contrary to the statement 'all is mind.'

Rhythm Wrote:Sorry, the board -is- the sim, I'm not arguing it..just informing you
a simulation is as "the imitative representation of the functioning of one system or process by means of the functioning of another." that means the game is the simulation, not the circuit boards...

Rhythm Wrote:I'm running KSP and Orbiter on my PC right now..and you can't perceive it.  I have em tabbed out,  so -I- can't perceive them either....and yet they run, they exist.
yes, the processes are still running. but the objects of the simulation aren't there when it's not on the screen. the program that runs and loads the map from a data base may exist and run regardless of what we're viewing on the game. but a certain mountain for example, wouldn't exist when it's not loaded and being run by the game. it's the difference between the process that loads the game, and the objects that are loaded by the game. the rest of your paragraph is based on this misunderstanding.

Rhythm Wrote:Personally, I'd call what we perceive a sim just as readily, but it's a sim of a sim , in this instance, being run by a different "board", and in fact -being- a different board.  Ironically, that doesn't actually prove or even advance that it's -all- a sim (in the way you would take that to mean)....but I'm more careful with how far I extend my conclusions than you are, apparently.  Proving, for example, that everything we humans experience is a sim running on a biological computer would -not- prove that -everything, everywhere- is a sim, anymore than proving that KSP or Orbiter is a sim would prove that the Apollo missions were really just sims.
my position is reality is being simulated by an immaterial mind. that would make everything that is material a simulation. only minds actually exist.

Rhythm Wrote:dualism has -many- problems.....but has, nevertheless, not been disproven by you in this thread.  You didn't even try. It makes little sense for a person arguing for idealism to complain about a lack of substance..btw. [Image: wink.gif]
the interaction problem shows that the concept of two fundamental substances making up the world we experience is inconsistent, and incoherent. I would say that's just as much proof as any. if you could address this, perhaps we could further the conversation beyond 'nuh uh.' and i'm not complain about substance... i'm saying dualism is falsified thus monism entails.
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with senses, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can attain by them.
-Galileo
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Messages In This Thread
RE: Proof Mind is Fundamental and Matter Doesn't Exist - by Rational AKD - September 17, 2015 at 6:00 pm
RE: Proof Mind is Fundamental and Matter Doesn't Exist - by Cato - September 18, 2015 at 12:16 am

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