(September 18, 2015 at 3:42 am)Rational AKD Wrote:You are making a claim that something which (in your words) is immaterial (your mind) began to exist. We have immediately descended into non-cognitivism. Not only do we have no idea of what the immaterial is, we are now to believe that it comes into existence just as physical phenomena. But without any evidence or argument at all for that idea. It just seems ad-hoc to me.(September 18, 2015 at 3:20 am)Captain Scarlet Wrote: This seems straightforward to me.I disagree with premise 1. I don't think there is an eternal past. I think time itself had a beginning. so I can only grant half of that premise. the future part.
1) minds are eternal if Idealism is true
2) eternity implies and infinite past and future
3) it is impossible to transcend an infinite series of events (by definition you cannot get to today if the causal precursor is in the infinite past)
4) minds operate through a series of mental events
5) we exist today experiencing mental events
6) Idealism is false from 1), 2), 3), 4) and 5)
this argument, however, has different implications depending on what minds you're talking about. if you're talking about human minds, then they certainly had a beginning. I don't think human minds are without beginning or cause. and given they have a potentially infinite future, all that means is their knowledge of events will increase over time. though there's nothing contradictory about that, nor does it imply a transcendence of infinity.
now if you're talking about God's mind, that's a different story. I believe God is without beginning, but not that he has an infinite past. I think time itself doesn't have an infinite past. God in this case would transcend time rather than transcend infinity. as for the infinite future part, I gave that infinite series expressed as finite functions in defense of that particularly. I see no problem in God having all future knowledge in finite functional terms that can be expressed in an infinite series of events. we express an infinite series of numbers in finite functional equations all the time. I can write many functional equations that all express a different set of infinite sequence of numbers.
How does a god transcending time make a coherent concept? One can imagine a thing in a different dimension from the ones we see, but that still makes it natural and finite. But how does one imagine a thing existing outside of the universe (or metaverse or multiverse if you prefer), that is to say existing outside of existence itself. If god transcends time don't bother praying to it, listening for it, expecting it to do things in time or space. I am not sure what a god transcending time conjurs up in your imagination and I understand theists accept it. But what on earth does it mean? It has as much meaning as the sound is brown.
A god outside of time is frozen, unable to act, has no internal processes which lead to any form of mental causation, no causlity at all. Without time nothing is possible because there is no potentiality. If you think it is possible, you owe us at least a sketch of how this works. If nothing else if this is true, this presents us with a whole new form of causality which is even more exotic than speculation on magic (even that requires time).
"I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence"...Doug McLeod.