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Proof Mind is Fundamental and Matter Doesn't Exist
RE: Proof Mind is Fundamental and Matter Doesn't Exist
for Rhythm... I assume since you did not address my latest response concerning your criticisms of the argument that you don't have any problems to bring forward concerning that response at the present time. with that being said, i'll briefly address your criticisms of the evidence brought forward from QM.

Rhythm Wrote:The bridge isn't "only there because you observe it" - you've made the most common and ridiculous mistake on the periphery of QM.
the bridge is only there as solid particles because you're observing it. apart from that observation, it is a wave of potentialities which can only be expressed in mathematical terms... that obviously makes it fundamentally different from matter apart from observation. this is why it is accurate to say matter isn't there apart from observation. it 'materializes' upon wave function collapse.

Rhythm Wrote:The way you take the word "observe" to mean, in your everyday life, -is not- what is meant by observation in QM.
right... but i'm saying the implications of the QM term has implications concerning mind's effect on reality... particularly the ability to collapse wave functions. I would say this was shown most clearly with the delayed choice quantum eraser experiment, where physical interaction between the measuring device and the particles was ruled out; and it was found that the measurement doesn't just cause collapse in the present, but also loads a back history as though the particles were acting materialistically before they were measured.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6HLjpj4Nt4

Rhythm Wrote:The bridge isn't there -as I perceive it- even when I'm observing it.
if you're referring to the added qualia in our perceptions, then you're right. however, QM further shows that the bridge isn't solid material when it's not observed. it's a wave of potentialities, which doesn't seem to be an accurate description of matter... thus the statement, 'the bridge is not there when you're not observing it.'

robvalue Wrote:Insisting our perceived reality is the only real reality is just begging the question.
I certainly don't believe our previewed reality is the only reality. I just think physical reality is merely a manifestation in our perceptions, and doesn't exist apart from that. so the reality that exists beyond your perception are other minds, and their mental constructs. even so, I wouldn't call this question begging. we're talking about the metaphysical belief with the fewest assumptions and the most consistent with experience. such a particular conversation wouldn't be an argument for truth, but one for what's most reasonable. thus it's not question begging, but then again it's not proof. but if you want proof, that's what I presented the OP argument for.
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with senses, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can attain by them.
-Galileo
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Messages In This Thread
RE: Proof Mind is Fundamental and Matter Doesn't Exist - by Cato - September 18, 2015 at 12:16 am
RE: Proof Mind is Fundamental and Matter Doesn't Exist - by Rational AKD - September 20, 2015 at 1:11 pm

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