(October 17, 2015 at 8:36 pm)Blondie Wrote:(October 17, 2015 at 7:16 pm)Irrational Wrote: If I am wrong about hell not existing for Christians upon death to burn in, you will burn in hell. But if I am right, then we both will die and rest in peace after that, no problem.
But to be on the safe side, you should assume I'm wrong. Therefore, it is essential that you stop being a Christian!
Heaven is the place where true Christians will go to be with God forever. Hell is where people who think they are Christians, but really they are not and everyone else who does not accept that Jesus Christ died on the cross for everyone and rose again on the third day. This is what I believe and in general, this is what most Christians believe. Therefore, this is why it is essential you drop the non-belief and walk into the light.
Fake Christians are the people who acted on the outside that they were Christians, but on the inside, they never were.
Look, Blondie, I know this is what they teach you in Bible Camp, but it's just not true. Many of us here, myself included, really thought we were having a "personal relationship with Jesus". The power of even very intelligent people (I am very intelligent) to delude ourselves through the psychology of group-think, to use a generic term, is amazing.
Worse, Christianity teaches you that it is a virtue to close your mind to the things your brain notices that might challenge that group hysteria in which you participate; it tells you that the worst thing you can do is to question the source of the feelings you interpret as God speaking to you. To learn "outside" information becomes dangerous and potentially evil; this is the sure mark of a cult. Since you already have based your whole world concept on the idea that some thoughts are "sinful", it is not hard to instill this programming in you.
Some of us just couldn't quite block out the thousands of ways in which the teachings of Christianity and the Bible conflict with testable, measurable reality... places where the "magic" fails, and we committed the ultimate sin: we began to think for ourselves.
Once I saw that I was deluding myself, I ceased to connect the feelings of awe and wonder to my belief, and I found I still felt the same way about things that were not just prayer-related. The only personal relationship I had had was with my own brain and the imaginary friend I had created.
So it's not that I was never a Christian, not that I never believed. In fact, I was such an outspoken Believer that I was selected early to begin training as one of the church's young ministers in youth outreach programs, and I was so "on fire for Jesus" (as we said back then) that I probably annoyed "regular" Christians. And yet here I am, telling you that you are deluding yourself, as I was.
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
