RE: What are the evidence for no god?
October 18, 2015 at 3:22 pm
(This post was last modified: October 18, 2015 at 3:28 pm by TheRocketSurgeon.
Edit Reason: Corrected an ambiguity.
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(October 18, 2015 at 3:07 pm)Blondie Wrote: Since you brought up evolution and creationism, I will ask a question. There are some theists who actually believe both is true. The creation in the Bible does not say on the scientific end of how God did create the universe, humans, etc. No one knows how long the days were in the beginning. Time may have existed, but I was not there personally just like anyone else in existence today. What is your take on the theists who combine both?
Blondie - I'm having an extremely busy day, today, so I'm only popping in and out sporadically, and soon I'm going to have a long errand to go run for the business, so I'll try to provide some warning when the call comes in. That said, I want to address something you mentioned earlier.
You said that Neandertals don't provide evidence of common ancestry because they're too much like us. That's true!
Neandertals are our cousins, not our grandparents, so to speak. They are descended from a species that split off from our ancestors, and developed into them [Neandertals], while we stayed in Africa and kept heading in the direction we went, as I described before. They're very like us, but have their own unique set of characteristics. But they are definitely NOT our ancestors. However, by the time the Neandertal descendants met the first humans moving into Eurasia, the divergence had not gone so far as to prevent interbreeding, and we have evidence that 1% to 3% of European and Asian genes were contributed by Neandertals interbreeding with us, occasionally.
The problem we face is that it's not a linear graph, like A->B->C->D->Us.
Think of the grandparents-cousins description, I gave before, in the case of your own family tree. If you have siblings, take your mom and draw a splitting arrow down from her to each of her kids, including you. You represent Human beings, here. Your mom represents our immediate ancestors, still pretty much just like us. Your siblings represent the different sub-groups of humans (the different mtDNA lineages, including racial clustering, with which you seem to already be familiar) that exist now. Your mom also has a parent and siblings, presumably, so you'd draw them on the board, with connecting arrows from each parent to child. You can now trace back up through your grandfather and back down to every one of your cousins, just by choosing different "branches" of species direction, when groups split off.
If you keep doing this, back and back, generation after generation, pretty soon you could trace yourself (eventually) to every human being on earth.
But sticking with all the family members you can remember, as many generations back as your family knows. Got that image? Okay, now imagine that you left that board in a room, and an earthquake came and shattered the board into individual drawings of people with a few lines left, but most of it was destroyed, in-between. You can see clearly that it's a family tree, and you can see that some are supposed to connect to others, but because so many are missing, it can be tough and tedious work to figure out which connects with which to get to you and only you. Yet with careful work and comparisons of the shattered edges, it can be done.
The fossil record is like this. We have many, many puzzle-pieces, and we've done a remarkable job of assembling the pieces. Some patches are missing, and other patches have too many pieces that are potential candidates to fit into that slot, but we don't have enough evidence to prove which one is the "right" piece that went there originally. But we do have the pieces, and we do know what the overall picture looks like from the ones we've already managed to figure out.
Then someone comes along and tells you that there is no puzzle, that the pieces were never found, even though you're looking right at it, and the obvious "family tree" pattern that has emerged as you figure out where everything fits.
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.