(December 26, 2010 at 6:49 am)Welsh cake Wrote:(December 23, 2010 at 10:13 pm)theVOID Wrote: And from that I have to assume you haven't actually read his work...I have not read all of his published works. My patience with him was thoroughly exhausted after he started asserting from probability that evolution and naturalism were 'self-defeating' because they were contradictory to his (Plantinga's) calculations. I also haven't read everything C.S Lewis ever wrote down either. So what? Please tell me whether any of this really matters at the end of the day.
I don't have all-my-life to get worked up over some guy who counter-argues everything given to him or thinks naturalism is an incoherent mess because it doesn't acknowledge his god-concept or other supernatural entities.
It was just your statement that he was "nothing more than a bankrupt apologist" that set off a red flag because it's plainly not the case. I never said reading all his works was required either, It just seems to me like such a statement would only come from someone who hasn't read his work or has read very little - A lot of people including his critics admire him at least for his effort and sincerity and he's done a heap to challenge naturalists.
Where does Plantinga say that naturalism is incoherent because it doesn't acknowledge God? Go find that for me please, I must have missed it...
And like you need your whole life to read enough to get a realistic opinion, your melodrama is another red flag.
Quote:Quote:You don't doubt his reasoning skills, but you this he is unable to appreciate a logical and rational argument? How are those two statements not a contradiction?Right, but now we're talking about philosophy and yes, the labour of reason is rationality, however reasoned arguments are not quite the same as rational arguments. Plantinga used his reasoning skills to generate the conclusion of the premise that Christianity is true (by faith) did he not?
What argument are you referring to?
Quote:Quote:As for his abilities, how about this: Plantinga was the one who defeated Rowe's argument from evilNo, Void he did not. He used the 'Get Out Of Jail Free' card with the free-will clause which doesn't resolve the Epicurean logical paradox William L. Rowe developed his work upon. Rowe's position is questionable as well at any rate, I've read several of his reviews and papers and couldn't for the life of me understand how he was actually defending theistic arguments or following (maybe even supporting) Plantinga's work.
Rowe's argument intended to show that an omnibenevolent God probably did not exist, Plantinga presented a case where it was logically possible for God and Rowe's E's to coexist - That is all that is required.
Quote:Quote:He started the post-positivism boom of Christian philosophy, his work in "The nature of necessity" is praised by philosophers regardless of their religious beliefs and his early "God and other minds" was a fairly serious challenge for many epistemologies.Oh I bet it was, asserting the claim "God is rationally justified" would blow anyone's socks off. I couldn't possibly think of one single way to respond to that claim. Nope. At this point it is worth mentioning to you that I do not care what the reception of people's work is; I care about substance, the content of their work, in other words is it rational? Meaningful? And so on. The Bible for all its atrocious dogmatic content, absurd ethnics and continuity contradictions is also widely cited as an important "flawless work" of art, so what?
Where did he simply assert that? And what argument are you referring to? His arguments for belief in God being similar to belief in other minds was flawed, but anything but an assertion, like always he builds a comprehensive case for his beliefs.
Also, He has had multiple attempts at a justification for theism and I'm not aware of a single one that was just asserted. You don't write a trilogy of books for an assertion.
You want substance there is a hell of a lot of it, he hasn't managed as far as I know to build a case that was immune from refutation but he's had some fucking impressive attempts - You do realise that mostly everything suggested by Philosophers has been wrong no? Why should Plantinga be so criminalised for trying just like everyone else to build a comprehensive argument for his positions? Hate him all you like but you could never justifiably say he didn't give it a fucking decent attempt.
Quote:Quote:He didn't redefine epistemologyHe redefined or rather 'bastardised' epistemology into something where he could defend his faith as rational. Have you also read criticisms of his work?
Yeah I've read more criticism than his actual work and at no point during his work or any refutation did I come across the accusation that he changed the meaning of epistemology from "A theory of knowledge and justification". Do you have the passage where he does so?
.