(December 16, 2015 at 2:08 am)drfuzzy Wrote:(December 15, 2015 at 10:25 pm)Delicate Wrote: Bogo = Boghossian.Huh whut???
Village atheist is the atheist equivalent to a village idiot, as opposed to an atheist who is well-informed and educated, capable of nuance and distinction in their atheism.
And secular priests are those people, be they on youtube, or who write books, or what have you, that teach atheists the kind of beliefs and ideas (fallacious though they may be) that they learn.
Not everything you believe is based on concrete data. As someone who actually has to study epistemology, I can tell you that much. You, and everyone else, all possess various beliefs that are held on faith, or trust. Or that are believed without evidence. That's a discussion worth having in its own right with people who seem to be operating under this scientistic caricature of the real world (no doubt a mainstay of atheistic dogma) that is the subject of refutations time and time again.
So no, knowledge is NOT (all) provable data. Religion is certainly not unique in asking people to place trust. And this idea that the only kind of worthwhile knowledge is provable data.
As someone who actually has done my share of reading in epistemology, would you want to have a discussion about this?
No, I have had enough of fairy tales and apologetics trying to "prove" those fantasies are real, thank you very much. I'll place my trust in science and provable data.
Oh okay. Do you have any science and provable data to demonstrate that academic epistemology, a field developed over thousands of years in philosophy is fairytales and "apologetics"?
(watch how atheism ruins the minds of even people who claim to have phds!)
(December 16, 2015 at 8:46 am)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: Delicate, are you really not tired of repeating the same lie, over and again?
Most of the board members here are former Christians, and we understand the religion quite well, especially now that we're on the outside looking back at the reasons we once chose to believe. I would suggest, then, that it is you who fails to understand, because you blind yourself with the culture and thought-limitations imposed by any system of belief.
Atheism has no system of belief; it is the absence of a belief. You too are an atheist, with regard to all the other religions that we also don't believe in (e.g. Islam), and that lack of faith in the other religions is not a thing, for you, either. How hard is this to understand?
It is true that, as atheists, there are things we commonly accept, such as the findings of science, because we have no preset reason to reject those findings as tentatively true, and we believe them only to the degree that they are actually proved (or suspected of being true, based on inferences from data, a much lower level of acceptance... an example would be Dark Matter/Energy). But we do not have leaders, or even a true group identity-- we are as likely to disagree on every other subject as we are with you.
The one thing we do agree on is that your ideas about God are as transparent and false as all those other religions you already reject. You just can't see that the same thing applies to your own, and the mental programming you have installed on your operating system protects itself by keeping you from seeing it. One day, you may gain a greater understanding, as we did when we left Christianity behind.
You should also really work harder at not trying to tell us that faith is knowledge, when it is already defined in Hebrews 11:1 as "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." In other words, you simply believe it's a fact even though it's not detectable, and is actually just the product of your hope. That's pretty much the definition of imaginary.
In the meantime, by all means, keep insisting that it is we who have a lack of understanding. I'd be curious to know what part of Christianity you think I (and most of us here) fail to grasp. Vicarious atonement? Original (and heritable) sin?
Are you done with the atheist sermonizing? Because I'm a skeptic. I don't believe your atheist fairytales.
If you want to have a real conversation, as opposed to preach at me, you can start by demonstrating the truth of your claims in this post.
I'll wait.