(January 6, 2016 at 6:51 am)Mr.wizard Wrote:(January 6, 2016 at 2:11 am)robvalue Wrote: It sounds like MK is stuck on the idea that morality has to be handed down from an authority and can't just be the result of our own thoughts and empathy.
Of course assuming there is objective morality is going to lead to failure, because it's a nonsensical concept. Hiding the problem behind an invisible figure just stops it being immediately obvious that it's a flawed idea, and because God is hidden and mysterious we don't notice it's just his opinion anyway.
I never understand the desire to seek out the most powerful thing available and just do whatever it wants. If we jettison any way we have to judge what is and isn't actually helpful or harmful to human and animals, then we become amoral and don't know what effect following this dictator is actually having. This is flatly contradicted by the way people making such claims then give alternative explanations as to why these objective judgements are "good". If there are sufficient reasons, it matters not who says it.
Morality is simple, in its basic form.
Question 1: Do you want other people to be happy and healthy?
If yes: Go to question 2
If no: You are a psycopath. If religion makes you act as if you did care about others, then by all means carry on.
Question 2: Do you have a good idea what harms people and what helps them?
If yes: Great! Do things that help and don't do things that harm.
If no: Think about what helps and harms you. If you don't even know what helps or harms you, seek professional help.
Well that's why I am confused, he claims for that week he was an atheist, but as an atheist believed morality required god. How can you not believe in something and at the same time believe it is required for things that happen in reality? If you cant shake the idea that god is the source of morality, then you never really stopped believing in god.
My understanding of the argument for objective morality (which is invariably subjective and dictatorial in the absence of a truly perfect and blameless god-being) is that those who are sold by this fail to observe and understand how primate life evolved. Basically, we really do have a lot more in common than our holy books would allow. Furthermore, the holy books are used no more for good than they are to feed the philosophy of the avaricious and the egotistical monsters of this world (e.g., "god helps those who help themselves", "god hates those people", "I'm on a mission from god!"). Just imagine a world without sources to help such people create gods in their own image, upon which they can deflect their evil deeds! People will always be different, but I believe it requires the delusional fantasies created by religious ideas to really cement the philosophical walls between people, and that we would all be significantly more close without them.
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