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[quote='tackattack' pid='117789' dateline='1297763649']
guilt, conviction and repentance have little to nothing to do with delusion. They are basic human responces to experiential stimuli. What causes the guilt/conviction or the reasons behind the repentance can be based in delusional concepts or real concepts. That's dependant on what you term "real". For instance : Would you feel guilty killing a kid? Of course, would you ask for fogiveness from the parents and seek restitution and attempt to justify your actions? That has nothing to do with any kind of delusion. Emotions and intellect are not mutually exclusive, but one can overide the other when it's overemphasized.
As far as a Chrisitan perspective on pitting an ideal self versus a real self, it's not exclusive to religion, nor is it always detrimental. Don't olympians have an ideal performance they're aspiring to? The fact that most religions hold that ideal self as an absolute value just means you don't have to continuously move the bar. Failure to attain an ideal doesn't depress the average individual, nor does it in most Christians I know. It lends no power to becoming overly emotional about failure to attain then the contrast between ideal/real self being opposites you're describing. In fact seeing that the bar is at a constant level (absolute value) it's easier , IMO, to keep it in focus for betterment of one's self. It's dogmatic in Christianity that you can't attain the goal, but it's never been about attaing it. It's about the struggle of betterment and an ideal. That ideal is absolute and a far better test than a finite bar set by human intellect. The struggle can get cumbersome at times, as can any self-imposed goal, but most religions have that built in hope thing called salvation for encouragement.
Just my thoughts on the matter.
Quote:But religion convinces you that you are a sinner from birth.
Not mine. We have the cumpulsion to sin, but sinning is an act that requires understanding and the mental fascilities to rationalize and decide, which aren't inherit to newborns, but learned.
Quote:That you should feel guilty just for being alive.
Not mine.
“I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly”
1 John 10:10
My biblical understanding of it is that Jesus wants us to live a full and prosperous life free from guilt, sin and shame.
Quote:Which is strange when when you think about it, god created you as a sinner. So he's set you up to fail before you're even born. Unless you beg for forgiveness from him because he made you that way in the first place.
He's created opportunities for you to choose to sin. There's not a lot of calvanistic predistined teaching of "no free will" left around that I can find in Christianity. Repentance is a great way to actually promote personally accountability in an individual which , IMO, is severly lacking in both society and your idea of Christianity.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
