A psychological approch to how religion works

[Gregoriouse]

guilt, conviction and repentance have little to nothing to do with delusion. They are basic human responces to experiential stimuli. What causes the guilt/conviction or the reasons behind the repentance can be based in delusional concepts or real concepts. That's dependant on what you term "real". For instance : Would you feel guilty killing a kid? Of course, would you ask for fogiveness from the parents and seek restitution and attempt to justify your actions? That has nothing to do with any kind of delusion. Emotions and intellect are not mutually exclusive, but one can overide the other when it's overemphasized.

As far as a Chrisitan perspective on pitting an ideal self versus a real self, it's not exclusive to religion, nor is it always detrimental. Don't olympians have an ideal performance they're aspiring to? The fact that most religions hold that ideal self as an absolute value just means you don't have to continuously move the bar. Failure to attain an ideal doesn't depress the average individual, nor does it in most Christians I know. It lends no power to becoming overly emotional about failure to attain then the contrast between ideal/real self being opposites you're describing. In fact seeing that the bar is at a constant level (absolute value) it's easier , IMO, to keep it in focus for betterment of one's self. It's dogmatic in Christianity that you can't attain the goal, but it's never been about attaing it. It's about the struggle of betterment and an ideal. That ideal is absolute and a far better test than a finite bar set by human intellect. The struggle can get cumbersome at times, as can any self-imposed goal, but most religions have that built in hope thing called salvation for encouragement.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

If a delusion/deluded belief system caused you to have guilt and conviction, then that delusion has everything to do with guilt and conviction. Guilt and conviction can happen without religion (very good point btw. There are other augments were some believer regard nonbeliever as not having any way to have moral guide because they don’t use a bible to tell them what they can and can’t do.). However say you haven’t killed a child, or even done anything wrong for that matter, by this delusion there is the belief that no matter what you’re a wretch/sinner. On top of this imagine what the idea does to self-image, no matter what you do you’re a sinner. This belief is a psychologically damaging trap. Of course I’d feel bad if I killed a child but with the belief in original sin you don’t even have to commit an act to have the guilt.

“ideal self versus a real self”

Versus implies conflict. Its contrast not conflict.

“Failure to attain an ideal doesn't depress the average individual, nor does it in most Christians I know.”

There isn’t any way of knowing off hand if a person is depressed or not; and attitude is a poor predictor of thought. 1 in 10 adults in the United States is affected by depression. Because you don’t think a person is depressed doesn’t mean they aren’t. My point is that this idea can work in this way and very destructively so.

“In fact seeing that the bar is at a constant level (absolute value) it's easier , IMO, to keep it in focus for betterment of one's self.”

This doesn’t matter with original sin because it doesn’t matter how much you try. The belief is that you fail either way.

“It's dogmatic in Christianity that you can't attain the goal, but it's never been about attaing it.”

So it’s ok to sin? I mean you don’t have to try to attain your ideal self? Actually technically you don’t. However that would result in helplessness to improve yourself and helplessness in attaining you’re ideal self. That would only worsen the situation.

“It's about the struggle of betterment and an ideal.”

I thought you said it’s not about attaining it? your sending a mixed message. You saying it’s not about attaining it but it’s about (the struggle and hope) to attain it. On top of that that would mean struggling and hoping to attain the unattainable (sinless perfection). Hence frustration.

and btw I for got to site Carl Rogers theory of self as my source of this psychological principle. http://webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/rogers.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Rogers