(January 22, 2016 at 6:49 pm)Whateverist the White Wrote:(January 22, 2016 at 2:43 pm)athrock Wrote: This is a weak argument, and I see it all the time in this forum. "Oh, it's you believers who are trying to convince yourselves." No, Whatever, it really isn't. Believers believe. It's non-believers such as yourself who cling to the notion that God is immoral who must try to explain away rational explanations of God's actions.
IOW, atheists understandably ask hard questions. Believers reply with reasonable answers. Now, the ball is back in your court to deal with the implications of those answers. And simply repeating the questions is not the response of an intelligent man.
I wasn't trying to make an argument. I'm just pointing out that I and plenty of other atheists do not care about the supposed immorality of God. We understand that He is a character in a book of fables and as such he can be menacing, good or evil in turns, whatever. There simply isn't any problem for me since I don't believe and I don't care. That isn't an argument, it's simply a fact.
Well, I suppose that's fair, but is it reasonable and accurate?
How do you KNOW with absolute certainty that Jesus is just a character in a book of fables?
And, FWIW, the question of God's immorality in the OT is a huge deal to a lot of folks. Cecelia, for example, is beside herself with hatred of God for his alleged sexism. I don't know what may have happened to her in the past to make that her hot button, but there it is. Others here are gay and that's their obstacle. I suspect one person may have even been molested by a priest - though this is just a guess on my part. My point is that people have different reasons for their atheism, and thoughtful discussion of these things might actually remove some barriers. I'm not sure that everyone is emotionally ready to have that kind of conversation, though.
For example, do you suppose that if it could be demonstrated to her satisfaction that God is actually NOT sexist, then a huge obstacle standing in the way of faith would be removed? IOW, if Cecelia looked into the matter carefully and came to the conclusion that God is NOT sexist (but actually the opposite), then might some of her animosity or defensiveness be diminished?
One other thing I've observed: most of the people in this forum are westerners and they come largely from a Judeo-Christian background. I'm not seeing too many people identifying as former Hindus or Muslims or Buddhists. I'm sure there may be a few here, but not the majority who are clearly coming from Catholic and Evangelical Protestant backgrounds for the most part. This means that they didn't say, "Well, I'm not happy with the Catholic Church's teaching on X, Y or Z, so, God must not exist." People with hot button issue like that usually become Protestant. No, the former believers here seem to have emotional or experiential reasons for their animosity toward God and believers.
Reasoning usually moves the individual in the direction of faith.
