(March 14, 2009 at 10:23 am)Tiberius Wrote: I think free will exists because physics has shown us some truly random events, and al the evidence currently points towards an indeterministic view of the universe.
What I have been saying is that while free will is impossible with determinism. I don't think indeterminism implies it. If physics has truly random events, if this is an indeterministic universe, how does that imply free will in any way? Where is the evidence?
If determinism is just one big X that WILL happen and 'there's nothing you can do about it.' And Indeterminism is many different things that can happen, but to simplify it I will say A B C. Just because you could go down road A B or C. And you could end up doing either of them - how does that imply that WHEN you do one of those things you are in any way separate from physics or had any special influence over the matter at all?
E.G, to simplify: if determinism is X whether you like it or not. Indeterminism could simply be something like A, B or C (or however many) whether you like it or not. And if one of those happens (e.g C or whatever) who is to say that you are the one that chose it? Yes it could have gone A or B but that could just be the physics bouncing about and the randomization of the universe not that you guided YOURSELF with free will right?
How can you do other than what you are doing I mean? You are a slave to yourself right? You have freedom but only to do what you are doing I think. I don't see how you can steer yourself. You can believe you are 'steering yourself' but did you have any choice in your belief on that matter? Did you 'steer yourself' to believe that? And simply because you believe it, is that any evidence whatsoever?
I think determinism makes free will impossible. But I still of yet know of no evidence of why indeterminism means you can be separate from physics and having any real choice in the matter - rather than physics simply being more random and unpredictable rather than determined.
I think there is freedom and evitability. But how does an indeterministic universe in any way imply free will or give any evidence of it? Rather than simply making it possible whereas its totally impossible in a deterministic universe.
Hopefully I haven't misunderstood.
EvF
