Gay, Catholic and Doing Fine

[athrock]

Carnal desires include far more than sexual matters, LC.

To be "carnal" means to live according to the desires of the flesh. This could mean anything from a desire for more chocolate, a bigger house, a promotion at work. These things are not bad - nor is sex, btw - but our DESIRES for them can be the things that DRIVE us each day. As such, these desires are disordered.

You may have seen the bumpersticker "Whoever dies with the most toys, wins." This is an example of a carnal, or worldly, philosophy. Perhaps you have a friend or neighbor whose whole life revolves around his new boat, her vacation plans, her wardrobe, his promotion. Bigger. Better. Faster. More expensive toys. They are not trying to merely keep up with the Joneses, they want to BE the Joneses. They have a hunger for things, for pleasures - drugs, alcohol, sex, money, power - that is insatiable, and they strive to find anything to fill the emptiness they feel inside. Something to distract them from the pain. This is because the things of this world cannot satisfy us for very long. We are eternal and these momentary, material pleasures are not.

And not to replay a subject which has been beaten to death in this forum, but without God, you can ACT according to your ideas of right and wrong, but you cannot KNOW what is right and wrong.

What you are actually describing is hedonism.  Please demonstrate to me that all atheists are drug addicted, STD-spreading, greedy, unbridled hedonists and you may have a point.  It's a ridiculous assertion.  There is no reason to think that a rational, mentally healthy, well adjusted person is not capable of tempering their "desires of the flesh" to live a fulfilling, and well balanced life -without- inserting God into the picture.  I have yet to see a theist make a good case for this.  

You can call it hedonism if you like, though this is not a term that is commonly used among believers. And I have never said that all atheists are...etc, etc. nor would I say that all believers are holy, righteous, etc. Humans fall in various places along a spectrum of understanding, and I see no reason why an atheist cannnot make good decisions and live as a moral man.

Man is a tri-partite being (spirit, soul and body), the the body is the lower, outer portion of our being. When I first look at you, I see your body, your flesh, and this may or may not appeal to me. Dating starts here. Drinking buddies are based on this level of relationship. Then, as I get to know you, I learn more about how you think, what your views are, etc. This is your mind (composed of your intellect, emotions and will), and knowing your mind is the when real friendships and marriages begin to be formed. Finally, the innermost (or highest) part of you is your spirit. It is this portion of our being that can be opened to god, and it consists of conscience and intuition.

Now, a person may be carnal if they live primarily for the pleasures of the flesh which we've already discussed. You may know people who are "foodies", for example. Alternatively, someone may be "soulish" if they are moved primarily by their intellect (the world of ideas and information) or their emotions (love, jealousy, etc.). The will is that part of us that chooses between the information presented by the intellect, the emotions and the body.

Here's an example: the body wants sex, the emotions demand love, and the intellect cautions that he's married to your best friend. What do you choose? 

The moral atheist might say goodnight and go home alone rather than invite her best friend's husband in for a romp. (And the Christian might jump him first chance, but that's another matter.)


The point I'll close with is this: While it may be possible to live a "good" life as a fleshly or soulish person, prior to the spiritual regeneration which occurs when someone is born again, the spirit is not open to the things of God, and it is impossible to live as a SPIRITUAL man. You have no antenna (or no satellite dish) with which to receive the input of God in your life. Only through baptism and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit are we able to hear the things that God wants to reveal to us each day. This is why much of what Christians say falls on deaf ears. So to speak.

And even many believers do not have their dishes pointed in the right direction which explains why their reception is so obviously poor. This, in turn, leads to the hypocrisy which scandalizes you so.