'choosing' thoughts.

[athoughtfulman]

I think we need to figure out what we're actually talking about.

Determinism, let's leave that for now. It applies to everything so we're not getting any answers there.

Free will, let's talk about that. And just free will. Humans might not be free, but the universe might be random. Hence, free will is independent of determinism, at least determinism for the whole of nature.

Which is the default? Which is natural? Do we start with free will? Or do we start with no free will? If we can't even figure that out, then we're both going to be arguing about who has to provide evidence for their claim. And if we can't make a case for either free will, or no free will to begin with, then it is a philosophical discussion. I don't believe we can know which exists. You believe in free will (a philosophical choice), so from your belief, I am the one with the positive claim and the responsibility to provide evidence. I don't believe in free will (again, a philosophical choice), so from my belief, you are the one with the responsibility to provide evidence.

Whether is have free will or not is immaterial. We can't observe it, because we are in the middle of it. If you can step outside of time, looking at the timeline of our choices and the mechanics behind them, then you might have something. But until that time, I remain convinced that it's a philosophical discussion.

The "we have no free will" theory is not based on anything but assupmtion and imagination. Which also religion is based on.

And the "we have free will" isn't?

That's what I'm interested in.