The Problem with Christians

[robvalue]

Please do

I explain all this there. I'll post it again in case you missed it.

http://youtu.be/J5u5-Bg2ENQ

OK, I am up to speed. You seem reluctant to acknowledge "laws" and prefer to talk about "models" just in case the law should suddenly up and change itself. I'm not sure whether you believe there are any concrete laws of nature at all. Do you think there are?

Considering gravity, if I was to observe a heavy rock just float off into the sky, would that be a violation of the law of gravity or would we have to change our "model" of how gravity works?

Thanks for watching the video.

In what way am I reluctant to say they are laws? Did you ignore everything I said about the difference between the actual law and our models? You are equivocating, and it's hard to know whether this is deliberate or accidental. The more times this is explained to you, the more likely it is you're simply being dishonest.

Reality/nature works a certain way. However it works, those are the laws. It appears, so far, that many of those laws stay the same and can be usefully modelled. There is still no guarantee they will always stay the way they are, or that we haven't missed some detail which we will find out later.

Again, you're assuming our current models are perfect. You give science way too much credit.

If you saw a heavy rock float away, that would potentially be evidence that our theory of gravity needs refining. Of course, some guy just saying they have seen it is not evidence it has actually happened. It would need to be reproduced in order to be useful. In general, the reliance on anecdotes that can't be tested betrays the desperation of theists to sneak in conclusions. But they are "only cheating themself". They don't need to convince me, after all. You're trying to imply it happens just one time, and that's supernatural. What it would be in that case is an unexplained event that doesn't fit our current models. Again, trying to call it supernatural is the argument from ignorance.

But to save you some time, I don't give a flying fuck if there is supernatural stuff, or a god, or the Christian God. Makes no difference to me, outside of scientific curiosity. If you want to label things "supernatural", then we are not stopping you. I'm just trying to explain how it's not useful to do so, and why we don't follow suit. Trying to do it with abiogenesis is particularly flawed, because there isn't even a theory in place yet. So to say it doesn't fit our theory makes no sense. You're trying to sneak God in, and intellectually you're only cheating yourself.