Death Penalty

[Kyuuketsuki]

I'm assuming you are dealing with these in actual order rather than the first, second I used.

Your para 1 is scary..it justifies cp.

Humans are just animals with brains, nothing more, nothing special though that doesn't mean we can't aspire to be something bigger, better & brighter. Societies, groups of us in combination (in this case nations) give us many benefits including ethical/moral frameworks which, in rights-based societies & democracies, laws tend to reflect but without someone to back up the will of the people (of that society), whether that be military/civil force or the will of the people themselves, laws & rights are meaningless.

You think it's scary ... I think it's objective.

Para 2 is scarier. Invoking Jeremy Clarkson as a parable of wisdom is baffling. I work in the criminal justice system and I will defend the jury system until something better is suggested.

Clarkson may not be a parable of wisdom but based on my experience as a juror he's absolutely right ... the juries ARE scary.

Para 3 Our system is based on the premise of " innocent until proven guilty " long may that be so.

In principle yes, in practice no ... our legal system is based on the idea of combat (champion, gladiatorial). The rich get off more than the poor because they can afford better "champions", those with better lawyers (for whatever reason) get the result they want and we live in a society where the threat of legal action can collapse the defence ... don't even get me started on those scum sucking no win, no fee (spit!) accident lawyers companies.

Para 4..I agree that innocence equals non-conviction.

So do I and that is how I operated as a juror ... you'd be shocked at how many jurors DID NOT work by that principle (I'd estimate about half of them tend to believe the accused is guilty even before the trial stats. I've had one juror say to me, she wouldn't be here if she wasn't guilty" (and others appeared to empathise with it. Granted my experience is a relatively small statistical sample but it is based at two different courts (The Old Bailey & Canterbury Crown Court) and like it or not many of those jurors SHOULD NOT have been allowed to server in that role.

Para 5 you are sanctioning cp.

No I was sanctioning DP assuming that we actually knew for certain and assuming it WAS NOT done for revenge but to prevent the criminal re-offending.

Para 6 your conscience is creeping in...does it make you feel that much better?

I find cynicism works so much better if you actually have raised an argument that works.

Overal Kyu, I disagree with you.

Good for you ...it would be a dull place if we did all agree now wouldn't it?

Kyu

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To be clear, I don't think there is a way to 100% convict someone, that's why it's "beyond a reasonable doubt" so the usual arguments against the death penalty like mistakes and statistics showing it's more costly to execute, etc... are strong enough on their own.

Nor do I and that's the primary reason I can never support the death penalty.

Kyu