(March 31, 2011 at 1:47 am)therationalist Wrote: any creature will need epistemology to prove his point- as creatures are limited with knowledge, unlike the creator. I believe I have a sound epistemology and some very important data that you may lack. I will clarify below.
Without an epistemology you simply cannot be consistent in your beliefs, nor can you expose your cognitive biases to anywhere near the same extent.
Quote:"something comes out of something and nothing comes out of nothing"
this means that for something to exist, something must have existed all the time, powerful enough to need no beginning. it cannot be anything natural, but it has to be an all powerful God, my dear.
From nothing, nothing comes. Fine - I don't believe nothing to be possible.
However, Going from "Something always existed -> It can't be natural (why?) -> God" is a complete non sequitur, you have not reasoned your way to that conclusion at all. There is also no relationship between non-contingency and magnitudes of power - I would argue that the more 'power' (abilities) the thing has the less likely it is to exist as a brute fact, but that aside, there is no reason why something that always exists necessarily has great power.
Let me demonstrate what you have so far:
1. Something always existed (sound).
2. That which always exists must be powerful (unsound).
3. It cannot be natural (unsound).
4. Therefore, God. (invalid).
As you can see, you don't have an argument yet, you have two unsupported premises and a conclusion that does not necessarily follow from the premises even if we were to accept them as true, it is horrendously flawed.
Quote:I solely believe in Quran (word of God) as the only guidance.
So it is not the literal truth?
By what method do you determine what parts are to be believed?
Quote:Most Muslims believe in man-made hadiths, which to me, clearly contradicts the Quran. They also misinterpret the Quran to justify their false beliefs- which end of the day is presented to you and that's how you wrongly perceive Islam.
I'll leave the claims about the Quran's specifics to our resident Muslim Rayaan and Apostate Anatar...
I'll ask this though:
1. How do you know that you aren't the one with false beliefs?
2. How do you know that you aren't the one who is spreading a false perception of islam?
Quote:Good question, I believe the earth is app. 4.5 billion years old like most Muslims do as it is more coherent with Quran, and also is what modern science tells.
Are you saying that the Quran supports an old earth? What verses hint at it's age in the billions of years?
Quote:Not only apostates but most of the people will go to hell, including most of the Muslims. If this sounds unfair to you, then ask me to clarify...
If you expected me to ask you to clarify then you should have done so, but none the less; Can you clarify that?
Quote:God has put his signature in the Quran, that is the mathematical miracle of 19.(http://submission.org/quran/app1.html) And also many scientific miracles.
Oh great, this bullshit again - Sorry, but I've been through this all at length before and it is quite honestly the least convincing and perhaps the most nonsense argument for deity I have ever encountered. You are taking the book you already believe to be divinely inspired and then using an arbitrary literary standard designed post-hoc to fit this specific book, and then when no other work that someone can name fits these specific arbitrary constraints you maintain that it is evidence for the divine - It is nonsense.
I could take a work of Shakespeare and devise some arbitrary standard to fit the book, some post-hoc constraints that are specifically tailored for that book, and then compare the Quran against the constraints designed around Shakespeare and when they do not fit I would be equally (un)justified in claiming that those books are the product of divinity.
These scientific miracles of the Quran have been absolutely refuted time and time again, if you have some specific examples you think are valid then present them individually.
Quote:Because it says so in Quran. I already mentioned why I have to believe the Quran. Men corrupted Christianity to something Jesus never preached.
You have given an irrational argument for believing the Quran. Until that is resolved there is no point continuing with all the rest of it.
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