RE: Your 3 main reasons
April 15, 2011 at 7:17 am
(This post was last modified: April 15, 2011 at 7:25 am by iamatheist.)
First of thanks for the responses so far I guess, but here goes in a comprehensive response..
Where did I say your worst members were theists? Simply that theism can be and IS dangerous, signs of that are clear throughout history
I was addressing the two posters in the thread at the time, ONE of whom was a deist. I am fully aware of the number and diversity of members on this board.. A main reason when choosing to see what this place is all about
I have already addressed this
...My grammar??.. jus' saying (is this really the issue here? I never said I am an english student)
Precisely why should I not want to move on given that it has been made clear by most posters here that life was better beforehand. Also does it not show some desire for community the fact that I am still around attempting to defend myself, why would I not have just unsubbed the thread and moved on. How long does this "earning trust and respect" thing take when in reality I'm here for debate not to take a position of power or look after your kids.
Frosty, You make a good point that perhaps the true value of what it is to be on this side of the fence is that despite whatever reason a theist can muster, there is always a response that is based in logic and reason.. Thankyou for the post, maybe the most interesting so far
Lilphil1989
There isn't a single demand in your quoted section of my post, note the 'maybe'. It simply reads 'maybe do this, or then again, that', quite blatantly a suggestion and at no point demanding. However, your post DEMANDS that I don't make demands... Go figure
Of course it was, I never said ALL in my post regarding that matter.. Of course there are one hell of a lot of wrongdoings done NOT in the name of a god, but just look at The Crusades (Obvious), The holocaust (Hitler was xtian and 'jews killed his saviour dag-nabbit'), The numerous inquisitions throughout history, t palestinian/israeli conflict, Terrorism, Witch-hunts, The still raging muslim/sikh feuds and fighting, Anything Jihad, Honor killings for girls who give birth before marriage in Islam, 'Corrective rape' sometimes even by family members to cure lesbianism, Recent indonesian violence amongst muslims of different sections of the faith....Not to mention the fact the vatican condoned slavery in all its forms and until recently disregarded condoms as a stop to the spread of AIDs. Genuinely the list goes on, and the death toll in the few I have listed probably runs into the billions even with the most conservative of estimations of death tolls
In defence of my second point which you so easily refuted, I simply point you toward the in depth research done into split brain patients and the left hemispheres function to hold a persons idea, regardless of the evidence, and rationalize the evidence to suit its need. There is proof out there that what I say is true, this was not just a top-of-the-head comment.
Thirdly I mention an inflated, undeserved sense of worth. To backup this point instead of evidence (as it is a very subjective point to begin with) I shall simply compare the religious idea of life to what I see to be the more logical understanding.
Religious- god MADE me, he went out of his way to put the pieces together in such a way that I am me..Therefore I am already great, because I am made by the divine to be exactly what he planned me to be.
non-religious- I am here through a series of events set in motion 16 billion years ago. In that time scale I am only here for a very limited and insignificant amount of time. Therefore I must spend that time being the best I can and leaving an impression on those who are yet to exist otherwise what was the point
I find that in the non-religious view (obviously that is not everyone's) that the onus is on you to be the best you can, for yourself and for your species, to live on in memory and influence. Whereas, the religious view tends to be that, while not without sin, humans are exactly what god expected them to be, and therefore so long as you try to be good enough you'll live forever. Also across many religions this world is just a trial before the real goal, which I find a wholly wasteful outlook on life
Finally, thankyou THEvoid. 3 interesting reasons although could I possibly ask for more detail as I feel I may have got a bit lost in some of your sentences (yeah, I know I ramble a ridiculous amount)
(April 15, 2011 at 3:44 am)Aerzia Saerules Arktuos Wrote: some of our better members are theists (Ie: Tackatack, fr0d0, and Rayaan come to my mind)
Where did I say your worst members were theists? Simply that theism can be and IS dangerous, signs of that are clear throughout history
(April 15, 2011 at 3:44 am)Aerzia Saerules Arktuos Wrote: We also have not one... but several deists, some of them being rather good members
I was addressing the two posters in the thread at the time, ONE of whom was a deist. I am fully aware of the number and diversity of members on this board.. A main reason when choosing to see what this place is all about
(April 15, 2011 at 3:44 am)Aerzia Saerules Arktuos Wrote: Again with the claiming we lack spine... how very quaint
I have already addressed this
(April 15, 2011 at 3:44 am)Aerzia Saerules Arktuos Wrote: you appear to be a copy+pasting (troll?) that is bouncing around with zero desire
...My grammar??.. jus' saying (is this really the issue here? I never said I am an english student)
(April 15, 2011 at 3:44 am)Aerzia Saerules Arktuos Wrote: with zero desire to be part of a community. Precisely why should we respond to your post if it is your intention to move on without hanging around at least a little?
Precisely why should I not want to move on given that it has been made clear by most posters here that life was better beforehand. Also does it not show some desire for community the fact that I am still around attempting to defend myself, why would I not have just unsubbed the thread and moved on. How long does this "earning trust and respect" thing take when in reality I'm here for debate not to take a position of power or look after your kids.
Frosty, You make a good point that perhaps the true value of what it is to be on this side of the fence is that despite whatever reason a theist can muster, there is always a response that is based in logic and reason.. Thankyou for the post, maybe the most interesting so far
Lilphil1989
There isn't a single demand in your quoted section of my post, note the 'maybe'. It simply reads 'maybe do this, or then again, that', quite blatantly a suggestion and at no point demanding. However, your post DEMANDS that I don't make demands... Go figure
(April 15, 2011 at 3:44 am)Aerzia Saerules Arktuos Wrote: And you wouldn't say that stalin's regime wasn't atrocious?
Of course it was, I never said ALL in my post regarding that matter.. Of course there are one hell of a lot of wrongdoings done NOT in the name of a god, but just look at The Crusades (Obvious), The holocaust (Hitler was xtian and 'jews killed his saviour dag-nabbit'), The numerous inquisitions throughout history, t palestinian/israeli conflict, Terrorism, Witch-hunts, The still raging muslim/sikh feuds and fighting, Anything Jihad, Honor killings for girls who give birth before marriage in Islam, 'Corrective rape' sometimes even by family members to cure lesbianism, Recent indonesian violence amongst muslims of different sections of the faith....Not to mention the fact the vatican condoned slavery in all its forms and until recently disregarded condoms as a stop to the spread of AIDs. Genuinely the list goes on, and the death toll in the few I have listed probably runs into the billions even with the most conservative of estimations of death tolls
In defence of my second point which you so easily refuted, I simply point you toward the in depth research done into split brain patients and the left hemispheres function to hold a persons idea, regardless of the evidence, and rationalize the evidence to suit its need. There is proof out there that what I say is true, this was not just a top-of-the-head comment.
Thirdly I mention an inflated, undeserved sense of worth. To backup this point instead of evidence (as it is a very subjective point to begin with) I shall simply compare the religious idea of life to what I see to be the more logical understanding.
Religious- god MADE me, he went out of his way to put the pieces together in such a way that I am me..Therefore I am already great, because I am made by the divine to be exactly what he planned me to be.
non-religious- I am here through a series of events set in motion 16 billion years ago. In that time scale I am only here for a very limited and insignificant amount of time. Therefore I must spend that time being the best I can and leaving an impression on those who are yet to exist otherwise what was the point
I find that in the non-religious view (obviously that is not everyone's) that the onus is on you to be the best you can, for yourself and for your species, to live on in memory and influence. Whereas, the religious view tends to be that, while not without sin, humans are exactly what god expected them to be, and therefore so long as you try to be good enough you'll live forever. Also across many religions this world is just a trial before the real goal, which I find a wholly wasteful outlook on life
Finally, thankyou THEvoid. 3 interesting reasons although could I possibly ask for more detail as I feel I may have got a bit lost in some of your sentences (yeah, I know I ramble a ridiculous amount)
