Women earn less than Men

[GrandizerII]

Something you conveniently ignored, and did not comment on, is the empirical evidence for gender discrimination is real in the workplace. Another thing to point out is that this isn't strictly committed by men. Women are guilty as well. The study I linked to is one example that illustrates this.

I am aware that conscious and unconscious bias exists against female workers in the workplace. What I don't believe is that this bias causes supervisors to actually pay those employees a worse wage than other employees doing the same job, and I don't believe that supervisors are able to get away with blatant wage discrimination on a systemic basis. The reason I don't believe those things is that I have yet to see convincing evidence that they're true.

As for your questions, there is a consistent unexplained gender pay gap,

Earnings gap.

that has been measured in hourly rates, weekly rates, yearly, etc,

Hourly earnings, weekly earnings, yearly, earnings,


You are still talking about an earnings gap and pretending it is a wage gap.

Gender discrimination is one factor that has been considered to at least partly contribute to that portion of the gap. Studies show subconscious discrimination is real, whether gender or race-based or sexuality-based. You may not like it, but that's the evidence.

I'm aware that unconscious bias is a real thing. I just don't think it causes or allows broad, systemic ignorance of our country's laws against wage discrimination. Isolated cases, perhaps, but not enough to cause a disparity the size of the earnings gap, or to significantly affect it.

No voodoo or conspiracy theory, this is statistics, psychology, controlled experiments, etc.

You can use psychology to demonstrate that unconscious bias exists, and you can use statistics to demonstrate the earnings gap, but you have yet to demonstrate a wage gap caused by discrimination. At best, experts speculate that it might be a contributor to the unexplained portion of the earnings gap, but only to the 6% or so that's left after you adjust for everything else. According to the European Commission, direct discrimination only accounts for a very small portion of the differences in pay between men and women. The rest is determined by college major, career choices, whether they had children, etc.


Wage discrimination is illegal, and there is a system in place for prosecuting it. If a woman believes she has a case for wage discrimination, she should go to the authorities and report it like any other crime. Aside from that, I really don't know what you expect to be done about the discrimination that still takes place. Making it illegal and punishing people who do it is about the best solution I can come up with, but we already do both of those things.

6% is not a small amount, especially in reference to millions of dollars a year. Let's not minimize the impact this has on how much women fail to gain in a period of time compared to men because of this unexplained combination of factors (one of which is plausibly discrimination).

That said, still not sure how this wave vs. earnings distinction actually debunks the earnings gap partly due to discrimination again?

In regards to your last paragraph, that's if the woman was aware how much others are getting paid. If I'm not mistaken, some jobs don't like to have their pay information made public to all employees.