RE: Does God exist?
June 3, 2016 at 11:10 am
(This post was last modified: June 3, 2016 at 11:13 am by Whateverist.)
(June 3, 2016 at 12:39 am)Light of Truth Wrote: There are a lot of things to reply to:
The various arguments are in NO way refuted. Just because some people don't fully understand them doesn't make them refuted.
You strike me as quite a reasonable theist. (Welcome to the forum by the way.) Here you seem to imply the only way anyone can fail to be moved by the arguments of apologetics is a failure of understanding. I hope you'll retract that much.
(June 3, 2016 at 12:39 am)Light of Truth Wrote: Also, a logically airtight deductive argument whose premises are more probable than their negation most certainly leans towards God. For someone to say all of the various cosmological arguments have been refuted only shows that person's ignorance, and on a forum like this you would assume people care about a search for truth, not putting up the blinders.
I have no problem with you challenging whether or not said arguments have been refuted. To be refuted indeed they would need to understand them pretty much as you do and still have sound arguments to make against them. But you should keep in mind that there is a third option. Some of us are simply not impressed with any argument involving cosmological or metaphysical premises. Personally I don't think anyone has a firm enough grasp of the really big picture to make a convincing case on either side of any proposition whatsoever. In this realm, the most you can say is if you see things the way I do then such and such follows - and that's the end of it.
(June 3, 2016 at 12:39 am)Light of Truth Wrote: It takes more "faith" to be an atheist than it does to be a theist. Leibniz was correct when saying the most important question to ask is "why is there something rather than nothing?" As an atheist one must believe that something came from nothing, since physics, cosmology, and mathematics show that a universe that is past eternal is not possible. Belieiving that a God outside time created the universe takes much less faith that this.
Balderdash. It takes some faith to be a human being but that faith need not be in God. But no, physics and mathematics do not show that a universe cannot be past eternal. They only show that within the region defined by the big bang, everything we know has not had its current structure forever. This configuration of what is in our region had a beginning, but that beginning has not been shown to have come from nothing. That is an unfounded generalization. Of all the possible reasons why this region of what is has assumed the configuration it currently has, its having been arrayed that way on purpose by a mega-omni cosmic watch maker has got to be the most outlandish and least tempting.
(June 3, 2016 at 12:39 am)Light of Truth Wrote: I truly hope that all atheists actually look at the arguments for God and find Him, not look at them in a smug manner without really thinking them through. That is what I used to do when I was a nihilist. I hope than all atheists find the Truth.
Congratulations on having over come your nihilism. If literal acceptance of biblical 'truths' was the price you had to pay for your escape, so be it. I'm sure you can make a perfectly fine life as a believer in fantastic things. I respect the choices you make for yourself, they are yours to make. But please reread your last two sentences and ask yourself if you yourself are free of smugness.