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Being a sinner just for being born
#77
RE: Being a sinner just for being born
(June 12, 2016 at 7:48 am)robvalue Wrote: Ignorant: Thank you for your answers Smile

Of course, I care about the wellbeing of others. That is the basis for my morality. But I don't do it because of the consequences to me "if I sin". I do it because I want to. [1] I could get away with doing lots of "sinful" stuff, but I don't. [2]

What I don't understand is the need to introduce "sin" as a separate concept. [3]

I'm still not quite understanding how it works. Are we judging each other's actions as being sinful or otherwise? [4] So it's just another way of saying we think an action is immoral?  Or extremely immoral? [5] Is god's opinion of importance here, and if so, why? [6]

1) GOOD! Any Christian who reads the New Testament would do well if they did the same. 

2) GOOD!

3) Well, I think you would agree that many people WANT to do things differently. Many people act without reference to the well-being of others. Many people act in direct contradiction to the well-being of others. Some people even act in direct contradiction to their own well-being. How would you describe those realities?

4) Well, hopefully we don't have the habit of constantly judging other's actions. We do, however, judge people's actions all of the time and rightly so. Depending on our relationship with those people, out of love for them and their well-being, we may have the opportunity to talk about their actions, and invite them to better future ones.

5) Well yes, but that might be an oversimplification given the wider culture's understanding of the terms moral/immoral. But yes, "sin" is the Christian tradition's way of describing poor human action, human action that either seeks unfulfilling things, or seeks things in unfulfilling ways, or seeks things for unfulfilling reasons, or combinations of all of them. Fulfillment is also spectral. Things are not either fulfilling or not. Rather, they are more or less fulfilling, and those things which do not sufficiently fulfill, are sinful.

6) Clearly, from a theist perspective (at least mine), God's 'opinion' is important because that 'opinion' (which isn't the best word here) is what made humanity the thing it is. If fulfillment lies in people living out their humanity to the fullest, then that is dependent on what humanity is in the first place (which is determined by God's 'opinion')




(June 12, 2016 at 7:53 am)robvalue Wrote: PS: I forgot to say that I attempt to extend my morality beyond humans to all animals, as far as practically possible. How exactly actions are rated when done to a non-human seems to be vastly a matter of opinion, even among people who mostly agree on human/human interactions.

Very important aspect! This is something we as Christians have been very poor on in the past few centuries. The way we interact with animals most certainly carries a moral dimension. How we act in regards to animals DOES affect our own fulfillment!
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Messages In This Thread
Being a sinner just for being born - by mlmooney89 - June 9, 2016 at 3:55 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by SteveII - June 9, 2016 at 4:02 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by LastPoet - June 9, 2016 at 4:15 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by mlmooney89 - June 9, 2016 at 4:16 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by Minimalist - June 9, 2016 at 4:19 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by robvalue - June 9, 2016 at 4:25 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by brewer - June 9, 2016 at 4:30 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by zebo-the-fat - June 10, 2016 at 12:37 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by SteveII - June 10, 2016 at 2:07 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by Losty - June 10, 2016 at 2:09 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by Losty - June 10, 2016 at 12:42 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by Minimalist - June 10, 2016 at 12:50 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by robvalue - June 10, 2016 at 2:10 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by SteveII - June 10, 2016 at 2:30 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by Losty - June 10, 2016 at 3:08 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by Minimalist - June 11, 2016 at 1:21 am
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by robvalue - June 10, 2016 at 3:05 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by mlmooney89 - June 10, 2016 at 3:22 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by SteveII - June 11, 2016 at 4:59 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by SteveII - June 11, 2016 at 5:33 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by madog - June 11, 2016 at 5:08 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by KevinM1 - June 11, 2016 at 6:26 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by SteveII - June 11, 2016 at 6:49 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by Foxaèr - June 11, 2016 at 6:51 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by KevinM1 - June 11, 2016 at 7:02 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by SteveII - June 11, 2016 at 7:28 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by Gemini - June 11, 2016 at 7:48 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by SteveII - June 11, 2016 at 8:11 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by Gemini - June 11, 2016 at 8:16 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by SteveII - June 11, 2016 at 9:13 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by dyresand - June 11, 2016 at 9:30 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by Gemini - June 12, 2016 at 6:01 am
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by SteveII - June 12, 2016 at 7:43 am
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by Grandizer - June 12, 2016 at 9:16 am
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by SteveII - June 11, 2016 at 9:13 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by Grandizer - June 11, 2016 at 8:18 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by robvalue - June 10, 2016 at 4:21 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by KevinM1 - June 10, 2016 at 11:30 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by Foxaèr - June 11, 2016 at 1:34 am
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by Minimalist - June 11, 2016 at 2:06 am
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by robvalue - June 11, 2016 at 6:40 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by madog - June 11, 2016 at 6:45 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by Losty - June 11, 2016 at 6:50 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by robvalue - June 11, 2016 at 6:42 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by Losty - June 11, 2016 at 6:44 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by robvalue - June 11, 2016 at 6:47 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by robvalue - June 11, 2016 at 6:52 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by Losty - June 11, 2016 at 6:53 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by SteveII - June 11, 2016 at 7:01 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by robvalue - June 11, 2016 at 7:07 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by SteveII - June 11, 2016 at 7:38 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by robvalue - June 12, 2016 at 1:01 am
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by Minimalist - June 11, 2016 at 7:17 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by robvalue - June 11, 2016 at 7:15 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by dyresand - June 11, 2016 at 8:54 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by SteveII - June 11, 2016 at 11:01 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by Losty - June 12, 2016 at 12:03 am
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by KevinM1 - June 12, 2016 at 1:24 am
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by Ignorant - June 12, 2016 at 6:58 am
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by robvalue - June 12, 2016 at 1:59 am
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by KevinM1 - June 12, 2016 at 2:08 am
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by robvalue - June 12, 2016 at 2:12 am
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by robvalue - June 12, 2016 at 7:06 am
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by Ignorant - June 12, 2016 at 7:08 am
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by SteveII - June 12, 2016 at 8:19 am
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by robvalue - June 12, 2016 at 7:10 am
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by Ignorant - June 12, 2016 at 7:27 am
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by robvalue - June 12, 2016 at 7:31 am
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by Ignorant - June 12, 2016 at 7:43 am
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by robvalue - June 12, 2016 at 7:48 am
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by Ignorant - June 12, 2016 at 8:07 am
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by robvalue - June 12, 2016 at 7:53 am
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by robvalue - June 12, 2016 at 8:56 am
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by Ignorant - June 12, 2016 at 9:58 am
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by robvalue - June 12, 2016 at 1:20 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by Ignorant - June 12, 2016 at 2:42 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by Angrboda - June 12, 2016 at 2:00 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by Ignorant - June 12, 2016 at 2:35 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by robvalue - June 12, 2016 at 3:18 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by Ignorant - June 12, 2016 at 3:27 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by mlmooney89 - June 13, 2016 at 10:44 am
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by Ignorant - June 13, 2016 at 11:32 am
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by Ignorant - June 13, 2016 at 11:47 am
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by SofaKingHigh - June 13, 2016 at 11:49 am
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by Ignorant - June 13, 2016 at 11:54 am
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by SofaKingHigh - June 13, 2016 at 11:55 am
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by Ignorant - June 13, 2016 at 12:00 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by Ignorant - June 13, 2016 at 12:52 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by Ignorant - June 13, 2016 at 1:01 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by Ignorant - June 13, 2016 at 1:34 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by Losty - June 13, 2016 at 1:27 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by mlmooney89 - June 13, 2016 at 1:39 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by Losty - June 13, 2016 at 2:08 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by Ignorant - June 13, 2016 at 3:10 pm
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by Ignorant - June 14, 2016 at 4:21 am
RE: Being a sinner just for being born - by Ignorant - June 14, 2016 at 11:20 am

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