For Americans tired of NRA bullying.

[henryp]

I agree that nobody thinks they want to ban every single gun.  But the reaction to a mass shooting is never going to be "That's acceptable."  If the guy goes into Pure and only kills 25 people with guns that nobody is currently trying to take away, or someone kills 10 1st graders with a pair of six shooters, nobody is going to be saying "Thank goodness they didn't have AR-15's."  They're still going to want to feel like they're doing something to prevent this from happening again.  

Personally, I don't like guns, but I can understand wanting some.  For sport, peace of mind, and the big one that sounds stupid, but I think is undeniably legit, is in preparation for some level of societal collapse.  I've been making the joke that the people who say Trump is just like Hitler should be promoting arming ourselves to the teeth so we can rise up when the genocide starts.  But more reasonably, climate change, terrorism, biological weapons, disease, food shortages, power grid failure, localized rioting, mystery issue, etc... I see a lot of unlikely but possible scenario's where things could get very wild west like, and a stock pile of weapons would be important for protecting your family.  I don't know how to justify telling someone they can't prepare for that scenario. 

Lastly, weighing in late in general, I look at guns like alcohol.  How many drunk driving deaths.  Spousal and child abuse.  Suicide.  Assault.  Murder.  Rape.  Etc...  It seems to me to be the same thing.  The difference is that most people like drinking, so nobody wants to give up that right.  

Patriot act is another thing in the same vein.  Many people value their right to privacy.  If that costs us life, that's deemed acceptable.  Because they don't think they should give up their rights for the safety of the group.  On that topic, quoting some founding father, about people who sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither, is no longer some old irrelevant outdated nonsense, but wisdom to live by.

In the end, what I think it boils down to, is anti-gun folk don't mind giving up gun rights, because they mostly don't value their right to own guns.  And that's sort of how it is with everything.  People happily being willing to sacrifice everybody's right to X, because they don't have much interest in X.

No and bullshit. You are not going to confuse "pro-safety" as being "anti-rights", that is bullshit, so knock it off.

It is the same shell game theists pull with "anti-theist". I am also "anti-unicornist"...... It is pro logic, pro pragmatism.  But if you want to falsely use that bullshit term "anti-gun" go ahead, but to us it is "anti-gun violence" in the context of "Pro safety".

Knock it off. The 2nd Amendment was never intended to be what the revisionists on the right claim it is. It has the words "well regulated" in it, but somehow when we point that out you twist that to mean "ban every single gun". That is a lie and bullshit.

It is nothing short of bullshit paranoia. We regulate every other product our private businesses sell, and as technology changes so do the laws that regulate those products. So it is absolutely insane to think we shouldn't regulate modern technology with modern regulations. The founders had no way of knowing back then how advanced firearms would become. It is the same bullshit paranoia that has the world still addicted to burning fossil fuels. 

Don't hand me this bullshit. Not going to fly anymore. 

I don't know how many times I can repeat this. This is about attitudes about firearms, not about taking away rights. No different than what Nadar did to change attitudes about cars. No different than facing tobacco companies about the attitudes to smoking. Nobody wants a fascist state. Nobody reasonable is looking to take every single firearm out of every home. Stop being so paranoid. But no, the current conditions are unacceptable. We'd love all gun owners to work with us, but we are not going to sit and watch more gun violence.

I don't see a problem with the current conditions.  I do view pro-safety as anti-rights for most things, not just guns.  I don't care about the 2nd amendment. 

And I've also seen how the slippery slope works.  I remember when I was young, the gay rights movement just wanted to be called an 'alternative lifestyle.'  And then when they had that, they wanted equally valid.  Then they had domestic partnerships.  Then marriage.  All the while focusing on a young coastal white generation to one day lead the charge by calling everyone that disagrees with them bigots.  That shit works.  Black people are still getting shot by cops all over the place, but gays went from abomination to can legally make Christians photograph their weddings.  It's formulaic.

I support gay rights 100% by the way.  I'm glad for the success.  But it's also scary as hell how efficiently society can be reshaped.  And people are getting better at it.  The transgender thing was insane.  People were being called bigots before they even realized what was happening on that one.

The point being, I don't think you speak for all pro-safety folks.  And I don't think you speak for the future on the issue.  I think you speak for yourself in this moment.  But that doesn't mean a lot in the big picture.