If free will was not real

[Excited Penguin]

If it's already determined that you're going to eat chicken for breakfast there's not a single thing you can do to not eat chicken for breakfast. How are you free in that situation? Every decision you're going to make regarding that will have been determined, how are you free in that case? Don't say "Well I decided that for myself, and no one held a gun to my head" because even then you're constrained by the laws of physics. You're free from the gun but you're not free from causality. You make the decisions, but they aren't free.

Let me ask you something.  How does your view of the illusion of freedom actually affect your experience of life?  Have you stopped eating snacks, because you are offended at your real lack of freedom in choosing what snack you want?  Are you depressed because your wife didn't really freely choose you, but was predetermined beyond any control of hers to choose you?  If someone killed your Dad or raped your mom, would you say, "Que sera sera, that was predestined, can't blame that guy."  If you answer "yes" to any of these questions, then I'd have to say I suspect you'd be lying just to support your arguments in this thread.  But if you say "no," then you have very little real belief in the idea you are selling here-- it is a belief on paper, not one about the reality in and around us.


The problem with the philosophical claim of the illusion of freedom is obvious-- it's useless in the actual living and experience of a human life.  In my actual experience, I go out and choose my favorite flavor of ice cream, and I do so freely.  I don't sit there in a philosophical bind, cursing the Universe for railroading me into 7-11 on a hot Sunday afternoon.  And a philosophical idea that we can't actually apply to the living of life is about as useful as a bag of monkey farts.

Again, this is your experience. Your experience doesn't have to suffer from this change of perspective(it hasn't in mine), except in some small areas - like exacting retribution beyond what's necessary because of emotional evaluation of the offender.

But notice how you're arguing from the POV that it's wrong because it's uncomfortable, is what you're basically saying here, which is what a lot of theists would argue about God. Life without God would be hell, you're lying if you're saying it isn't and if you're saying it is then you aren't really a non-believer. -- Except that's not even true, like I just said, your experience of reality doesn't suffer at all. You'll still make decisions just as before, you won't fall into some depression because you know everything you'll do in your life is completely predetermined. You'll just carry on on with your life as it is. You know what would have to happen for your enjoyment of reality to really suffer? To see into the future. To know exactly what is going to happen and not be able to change it. That would really suck. But this? This is merely about accepting objective reality.