If free will was not real

[bennyboy]

IDK if I'd go so far as to say it -is-....particularly since the acknowledgement that it's possible, and that we have good evidentiary reason to suspect that it may be, is a sufficient response.

It's an evidenced plausibility (and possibility) that must be excluded, in any rigorous description of a non-trivially "free" will.

Now, it -could be- equally plausible and it -is- equally possible that the will is not deterministic in it's effect (which is what we give shits about), even if it is deterministic in composition and operation...it's just not in evidence at present, which is where the one proposition falls down relative to the other.

Hmmmm. . . and what would that demonstration look like?  You don't think forming intent and then acting on it however you want is free?

Okay, I'm gonna demonstrate my definition of free will, with a super-advanced scientific test.

Apparatus:
1)  A room
2)  3 flavors of ice cream: chocolate, vanilla, strawberry
3)  A sign, reading, "Please have some ice cream. But please take only one."
4)  Some test subjects.  They are apparatus, cuz, you know, they are machines.

Method:
Each subject will be put in a room with the ice cream and the sign.  A hidden camera will observe which kind of ice cream each takes.

Results:
People chose a variety of ice creams; some chose not to eat ANY ice cream; some ignored the sign and ate two or all of the ice creams.  Even though chocolate is clearly the best kind, many of them chose other kinds, because the influence of chocolatey goodness was insufficient to overcome their own predilections, as misguided as they may be.

Discussion:
Since people chose different kinds of ice cream, it is clear that the choice was variable not on their environment, but on their own agency.  Since free will is defined as the ability of agents to form and act on choices without compulsion or obstruction from their environment, it is therefore apparent that the test subjects were demonstrating free will.

Since this is an American test, performed on American soil, it is necessary hereby to quote also the constitution of those goodly landes: "We hold these truths to be sacred & undeniable; that all men are created equal & independent, that from that equal creation they derive rights inherent & inalienable, among which are the preservation of life, & liberty, & the pursuit of happiness."

Now, since the test subjects' choice of ice cream was done in the pursuit of happiness, to call their liberty "trivial" is to call the American constitution "trivial." How dare you, sir! If you hate America so much, I recommend you move to Canada, where they have only Pickle and Ketchup ice cream flavors, and nobody eats ice cream because they are compelled by disgust not to!