Peace....
I followed quite well. The Logic when applied to a Creator would be "What was in the box prior to anything being created?"
You cannot say that the possibilities are endless unless you are speaking of uncreated possibilities. Any object which requires a material process for its make would be excluded. So the objects which would not be excluded are objects which exist independent of material functions.
No it isn't. Consciousness is said to supervene from the Brain but it is not a material aspect of the Brain, and based on previous discussions you and others have conceded that consciousness clearly survives any detectable activity of the brain.
Your argument is comparable to someone suggesting that 100-99=x cannot demonstrate what the value of x is without proof. If the question is what exists when all the things which were created is subtracted from the equaltion? What else would you have? If someone says you would have nothing because everything which exists was created as a result of the creation of the Universe, I would disagree and so would most Cosmologists.. Even if the Creation happened as a result of an unrational event there would still be something to credit. Now if you ask the question "are there things within our experience which seem to exist independent of the material aspects of creation?", the answer would be..Yes...The Mind, meaning, Qualia, aesthetics, all of which are products of Consciousness.
Perhaps this will help...
If there were 200 assorted marbles in a box 50 red, 50 blue, 50 green and 50 black, and 199 of the marbles were removed, all of the red marbles were accounted for, all of the blue and the green, however only 49 of the black marbles were accounted for outside of the box..How many marbles are in the box and what color is it?
If you find yourself asking "Well how do you know what a marble really is? What if one of the marbles wasn't really a marble at all but some alien construct which dissapeared while in the box, What if the Box has the ability to spontaneously generate new marbles??
If you do this..You are having a problem understanding how logic works.
Whirling Moat
Quote:The question "would we be able to deduce precisely what occupies such a realm.." was followed by "such as a divine being.." and he stated that while we can list countless numbers of beings that could not exist.. We could not list those that do... I'm not sure if you followed what the person was saying.. The analogy stopped at "knowingness" and did not progress into comparing material items in this universe ..
I followed quite well. The Logic when applied to a Creator would be "What was in the box prior to anything being created?"
You cannot say that the possibilities are endless unless you are speaking of uncreated possibilities. Any object which requires a material process for its make would be excluded. So the objects which would not be excluded are objects which exist independent of material functions.
Quote:As it stands consciousness is a property of matter..
No it isn't. Consciousness is said to supervene from the Brain but it is not a material aspect of the Brain, and based on previous discussions you and others have conceded that consciousness clearly survives any detectable activity of the brain.
Quote:Otherwise you would need to provide evidence that consciousness exists outside of being created by, supported by matter.. (You'd have to prove it exists in another realm and know its properties in that realm as well) AND that this consciousness is not inert... AND that this consciousness existed prior to material life.. AND describe the type of environment wherein this consciousness resides outside of the material universe.. AND that this consciousness has the ability to create material life from its non material existence... AND that this particular consciousness is the only of its kind.. AND that this particular non inert non created by or supported by consciousness created the laws of physics that make up the current universe as we know it..AND that periodically this consciousness becomes incarnate..
But that's your own separate belief system..
Your argument is comparable to someone suggesting that 100-99=x cannot demonstrate what the value of x is without proof. If the question is what exists when all the things which were created is subtracted from the equaltion? What else would you have? If someone says you would have nothing because everything which exists was created as a result of the creation of the Universe, I would disagree and so would most Cosmologists.. Even if the Creation happened as a result of an unrational event there would still be something to credit. Now if you ask the question "are there things within our experience which seem to exist independent of the material aspects of creation?", the answer would be..Yes...The Mind, meaning, Qualia, aesthetics, all of which are products of Consciousness.
Perhaps this will help...
If there were 200 assorted marbles in a box 50 red, 50 blue, 50 green and 50 black, and 199 of the marbles were removed, all of the red marbles were accounted for, all of the blue and the green, however only 49 of the black marbles were accounted for outside of the box..How many marbles are in the box and what color is it?
If you find yourself asking "Well how do you know what a marble really is? What if one of the marbles wasn't really a marble at all but some alien construct which dissapeared while in the box, What if the Box has the ability to spontaneously generate new marbles??
If you do this..You are having a problem understanding how logic works.
Whirling Moat
