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May 26, 2011 at 2:54 am (This post was last modified: May 26, 2011 at 4:19 am by Darth.)
(May 25, 2011 at 10:25 am)Whirling Moat Wrote:
Peace....
Quote:The question "would we be able to deduce precisely what occupies such a realm.." was followed by "such as a divine being.." and he stated that while we can list countless numbers of beings that could not exist.. We could not list those that do... I'm not sure if you followed what the person was saying.. The analogy stopped at "knowingness" and did not progress into comparing material items in this universe ..
I followed quite well. The Logic when applied to a Creator would be "What was in the box prior to anything being created?"
You cannot say that the possibilities are endless unless you are speaking of uncreated possibilities. Any object which requires a material process for its make would be excluded. So the objects which would not be excluded are objects which exist independent of material functions.
Quote:As it stands consciousness is a property of matter..
No it isn't. Consciousness is said to supervene from the Brain but it is not a material aspect of the Brain, and based on previous discussions you and others have conceded that consciousness clearly survives any detectable activity of the brain.
Quote:Otherwise you would need to provide evidence that consciousness exists outside of being created by, supported by matter.. (You'd have to prove it exists in another realm and know its properties in that realm as well) AND that this consciousness is not inert... AND that this consciousness existed prior to material life.. AND describe the type of environment wherein this consciousness resides outside of the material universe.. AND that this consciousness has the ability to create material life from its non material existence... AND that this particular consciousness is the only of its kind.. AND that this particular non inert non created by or supported by consciousness created the laws of physics that make up the current universe as we know it..AND that periodically this consciousness becomes incarnate..
But that's your own separate belief system..
Your argument is comparable to someone suggesting that 100-99=x cannot demonstrate what the value of x is without proof. If the question is what exists when all the things which were created is subtracted from the equaltion? What else would you have? If someone says you would have nothing because everything which exists was created as a result of the creation of the Universe, I would disagree and so would most Cosmologists.. Even if the Creation happened as a result of an unrational event there would still be something to credit. Now if you ask the question "are there things within our experience which seem to exist independent of the material aspects of creation?", the answer would be..Yes...The Mind, meaning, Qualia, aesthetics, all of which are products of Consciousness.
Prove it. I don't care what a bunch of others have conceded on an internet forum. You, prove it. After that, prove that there is an additional consciousness, one that ISN'T part of a brain. Seems to doesn't cut it. The world seemed flat to many. Quantum mechanics doesn't seem to make any sense. How things seem to a person has no bearing on how things actually are.
Asking a simple mathematical question arbout marbles isn't a good analogy. The box is unseen, we don't even know if it exists, In it, there is one flarble.
You know that, according to me, there is a flarble in this box. But you would be right to ask me, how i know of the existance of the box, how I know of its contents, what the hell a is a flarble?
