(June 10, 2010 at 7:06 pm)Rwandrall Wrote: Any time you talk to a theist about God, they will systematically say the same thing: God has higher means than us, and we cannot understand his nature. But the thing is that it is God himself who said that he had higher means. So why do they believe in it ? What evidence do they have that suggests God, if he exists, has higher means than humans ?well, if God created everything, then what He created should be a proof of God being superior to man (in the context that God exists, obviously). If God made a brain for us giving us the capacity of thinking, then the capability and knowledge to do that (well, He knew what He was doing), the way he designed everything from how the human eye works to all other things that give us senses, makes us able to walk, breath, live, etc. and all the Universe that He created and the laws of the Universe that He set make us understand that He should have a very good memory (to keep in mind everything He did so far, so that He would build atop), logic, wisdom, etc. As for humans alone, the creator can never be lower than his creation (as a 2d being cannot create a 3d being, as a being of a 2d world cannot even imagine a 3d world). And yeah, how could you compare a lifetime of ~80 years old of existence (experience) with an 'eternity'?
Quote:However in the Bible itself, there is evidence suggesting that God, in fact, does not have higher ways than us, and may well be either a malevolent being, or a human-like being.damn these. I rather prefer exact verses to talk about than something I don't know exactly where it's written and how exactly it's written. Anyway, as about the feelings, from the Bible it doesn't appear as God is a person who falls to feelings (falling to His feelings is against doing something by reason). Moreover, consider if you succeeded at a laboratory to create some beings as big as the ants. You would not like to see somebody crushing them - you care for them. But you can't care for(i.e. love) them as you care for your mother, your brother, your girlfriend/wife, etc. The 'love' you show to your creations can only be deduced from what you do for them (feed them, etc.).
-He is always said to be all-loving and forgiving. This would mean that he feels at least some human emotions.
Quote:-He created man "in his image and likeness". If "image" means appearance, then, to me, "likeness" means the intelligence and emotions that men have, like anger, jealousy, but also kindness and compassion.If two objects are alike it doesn't mean they are identical (equality in all attributes = 100%). They are only similar, and one may be more advanced than another (but one could have been used as a moder for another).
Quote:-He regretted making man, so he created the Flood. This means that he can feel regret (a "bad" emotion) and can make mistakes (making him fallible)about mistakes... well, if he regretted so much what He did and said "oops! now I see what I've done!" He would have killed absolutely everybody - and would have not saved Noah and his family. If God created man allowing him to decide how to be like and all humanity finally became utterly unpleasant (which was against God's desire of how things should be), perhaps the "felt sorry" was the proper way to explain it.
Quote:-The 10 Commandments start by statements that he is to be followed at all times. He is clearly a jealous God.well, considering that the opposite (especially back then) meant to follow other gods and do the things that those gods required (sacrifice your children to the gods, having bloody gods that were told to have bathed in blood and were boasted as how many people they have murdered, asking adultery & orgies, etc.) perhaps God didn't like too much such servants of Him that would also do those things, which were also 100% against what Himself asked from them. Besides that, His "servants", by definition, supposed to be His servants only (and it is funny for a God to create beings, whom then turn their back to their God and start to worship pieces of wood and stone they assembled together - and God was supposed to like that?).
Quote:-The Bible says that he does not simply say "believe in me and you will be saved", he says "if you do not believe in me, you will burn in Hell". This means he is a cruel God, with unjust sentences.I have written something once about the subject in some posts. Don't have the disposition to seek it or something.
Quote:-He is capable of lying: he told Adam and Eve that they would die should they eat the forbidden fruit. Although this has been said by theists that they mean a "spiritual death", he still did not tell them the truth about what would happen if they ate the fruit.There is a possibility, though I am not 100% sure of it. If "day" meant a period of time (or, even, the days lasted much longer when God created man) then Adam & Eve had died in the same 'day' (this would require a 1000 current years = a 'day' of creation, because Adam lived 900+). But, as I said, it's just a hypothesis, I don't know if it was meant this thing.
Quote:He also lied to Abraham when he told him he had to sacrifice his son to him. Even though he did not mean it, it does show that he is capable of lying, a quality shared with humans.That was not a lie. I mean, only an affirmation can be "true" or "false". An interrogation or command cannot be.
Quote:-If he is all-loving, would he not do anything do prevent his beloved children from going to Hell ?Yeah, according to the Bible, only some people (men & women) are His children, as they are being 'adopted' by Him, and they go to heaven.
Quote:The only response is that he is testing us, and has a higher plan, which brings this following question:I have also talked about this subject in other posts.
-If he knows everything, why would he need to test us ? Should he not know what will happen ? And if he does, and knows the person will be sent to Hell, he is not all-loving.
Quote:-His "creation" is not perfect. for example, our eyes fail many of us, forcing us to wear glasses, or even be blind. Some of us are born with genetic deficiencies, some die seconds after they are born. Species of animals and plants disappear every year without any intervention from man, meaning that not only man, but all of life, is not perfect.According to the Bible, His "creation" was "good" - perfectness is not specified, and perhaps it had a slight different meaning by then - but not anymore.
Hopefully someone would be interested in the post I have written and thus I had not wasted my time stupidly.