RE: God exists subjectively?
November 11, 2016 at 10:46 pm
(This post was last modified: November 11, 2016 at 10:52 pm by theologian.)
(November 11, 2016 at 9:10 pm)Tonus Wrote: Aren't each of the five arguments by Aquinas an example of special pleading? "Everything that is A must be subject to B, except for that A which we decided is not and therefore breaks the endless loop which would otherwise result." I'm guessing he never successfully applied that thinking in his day job as a janitor.
If the Five Ways of St. Thomas Aquinas are special pleading, then everything shall be special pleading. As, he has shown us sound arguments from starting with the thing we surely know to exist: the things we can sense with our five senses and then he proceeded with logical demonstration. Hence, to deny the conclusion of 5 Ways that God must exist is to deny either reality or logic or both.
Further, it is not true that it has been decided in the 5 Way that God is special. It was demonstrated that by implying His non-existence, nothing will exist. But, that nothing will exist is absurd, for the starting point is that we know things exist. Hence, it is not just a special pleading, but it was realistically and logically demonstrated.
(November 11, 2016 at 7:13 pm)wallym Wrote:(November 11, 2016 at 6:41 pm)Maelstrom Wrote: God exists as a concept.
For a concept to be considered reality, there must exist the proper evidence to support it.
There has never been evidence to support the existence of god, despite there having occurred throughout history many proofs for the existence of many concepts.
Clearly, you don't need proper evidence to consider God a reality as so many do. What we experience (or your word, conceptualize) as reality is not bound by rules of logic/physics/etc...
Your brain just has to trick you into believing God is real, and in the reality you experience, there is some God.
Again, you keep saying concept vs. reality, but humans experience their conceptualization of the world. Not the reality of the world.
I think we are experiencing the world and concept is built first due to that experience.
(November 11, 2016 at 7:15 pm)Rhythm Wrote:(November 11, 2016 at 6:50 pm)theologian Wrote: 3. It is not true that there are no evidence to support the existence of God. The 5 ways of St. Thomas Aquinas is an evidence that God exist and to deny that is to deny both reality and logic, for his 5 ways are arguments which starts from the things we can sense with our 5 senses and it proceed with valid logic and true premises like principle of sufficient reason.
Well look at that, yet another word you only understand when it suits you...add it to the growing list. No, aquinas five ways aren't -evidence-...they're -arguments-... :looks up:
I find them less than compelling.
Well, what is evidence? Isn't whatever shows you the truth is an evidence? But, arguments shows us the truth granted that it is sound. Therefore, arguments are evidence.
(November 11, 2016 at 9:27 pm)Minimalist Wrote:Quote:I argue that what is subjective is the belief that there is no God
It is not a ""belief," dummy. It is the net result of legions of bible-thumping assholes singularly failing to produce any evidence for their fucking fairy tales.
Don't blame us for your incompetence.
Well, we must first settle whether there is God or there isn't, before we talk about the Bible, because the truth of the Bible relies on the authority of God. So, you want to talk about that seems to you a fairy tale? If that is the case, do you grant that God exist?