RE: Tooth Fairy Bullshit
January 19, 2017 at 8:49 pm
(This post was last modified: January 19, 2017 at 8:55 pm by Tartarus Sauce.)
Moving beyond this whole "is believing in god like believing in the tooth fairy" shtick, I can see where Chad and CL are coming from in their frustration with many atheists on this forum. To criticize another's belief is one thing, to view another as being quite literally of lesser worth because of a belief is simple bigotry. Many of you think less of CL or Chad or other theists for their beliefs, clearly not everyone or else they wouldn't bother staying, but a sizable portion. By their beliefs, I don't mean any specific tenets, though most are indeed the subject of scrutiny and ridicule; I mean that many atheists think less of them for having the gall to be a theist. Not naming names as you know who you are, but some atheists are profoundly perturbed that theists ---any type of theists--- have the nerve to continue holding theistic beliefs after being presented the atheist viewpoint. They castigate, mock, provoke, insult, and dismiss the theistic perspective, but then take it a step further than that. The claim the theist is broken, irrational, needs to be deprogrammed of what is clearly a form of brainwashing, in order to be a healthy, functioning adult in society. Many of you actively seek to deconvert theists for this very reason.
Sound familiar? It should, because this is the exact same thinking of Christian apologists. You know, those naive assholes who make a stop around here every once in a while to try and share the good news and transform you into boyscouts for Jesus? Some of you fall for the same mode of thinking that they do, which is an emphasis on right believing as opposed to right living. My best friend for the past year is a believing Jew, a people I'm familiar with since my mom's side is Jewish. She's a wonderful person, I don't think less of her for believing in god, and I bet the aforementioned kind of atheist couldn't name the first thing about what type of beliefs she holds to or how she incorporates her religious beliefs into her life, besides some snarky put down or cookie cutter dismissal about being a theist. She's remarked how this mode of "atheistic apologetics" is almost exclusive to atheist goys. Jewish atheists, who are rather common in Reform Judaism, think about religion from an entirely different angle than ex-Christian and ex-Muslim atheists, because Jews heavily emphasize right living over right believing. You'll meet plenty of Jewish atheists or self-proclaimed "agnostics," but you'll almost never meet a Jewish anti-theist.
Some ex-Christians turned atheist, particularly those from Evangelical branches, tend to color their perception of religion based on their negative experiences during their upbringing. For those who leave religion out of anger and hurt, they tend to utilize the negative traits of their religion of upbringing as a lens upon which they view all other religions. If you were raised in the type of actual "tooth fairy" religious thinking, which does exist, you used religion as a security blanket to shield yourself from the outside world, probably lived in a religiously strict community where people were ostracized for deviating from the norm, and likely lived in constant state of stifled suppression where people weren't honest with their thoughts and feelings out of fear of being shunned. If that was your experience with religion, it's hardly surprising you might think that's how religion has been for everyone, and commit yourself to convincing theists of how wrong their worldview is using your own experience as a guideline.
Obviously that's not meant to be a hard and fast rule, but I can't help but notice how anti-theists seem to be engage in an almost missionary like work of their own to convince theists how misguided they are and that they'd be better off ditching religion because, hey, it worked for them! Catholic Lady I'm sure can vouch how often she's been told how much better off she'd be without Catholicism, and I doubt she actually takes offense to that since I'm sure she thinks many would be better off with Christianity and can understand where you would be coming from. But you know what she doesn't do? Insinuate that you're intellectually inferior for being an atheist and treat you like you're broken and that she needs to repair you. I can not say the same for how some others have treated her during her tenure here. Sure, she knew the price of admission in joining an atheist forum, and believe me, she's been more than capable of taking the punishment some of you dole out, she's still here after all. In many ways though, I see her as more intellectually curious than some of the atheists on her who treat her like garbage, because she wanted to know what the perspectives were of people who thought different than her. Some of you will readily admit how little a fuck you could give of learning the perspective of a theist, what use is learning a perspective from somebody that believes in mythical tooth fairies, after all? If that's your attitude, you're subscribing to a mode of thinking far more damaging to your intellectual integrity than something as innocuous as holding a belief in god. You're not here for discussion, you're here to circle jerk in an echo chamber of those whom agree with you and would love nothing better than to reaffirm all day with you about how theists, all theists, are indeed really just that retarded. Why can't they be smart and rational like you, the atheist?
We all know fundies are particularly common among evangelicals and indeed I used to think a reasonable, likable evangelical I could relate to would be impossible. That was, of course, until I met Kingpin. He had more intriguing insights and was an all-around better poster than many of my fellow snarky, dime-a-dozen, "rational" non-believers. I still consider him a rare find in those communities, somebody who acted in the manner that he believed Jesus would want him to and to truly follow in his footsteps rather than use his religion as cudgel to pummel into submission those who didn't believe correctly and castigate outsiders with wanton abandon, but he proved to me they exist, and my own opinion of the truth value of his beliefs had no bearing on my views of who he was as a person. I respected him not despite his beliefs, but independent of them.
Some of you don't seem to know how to do this, which is why I call you bigots. Some of you come here to vent your frustrations about your friends, family, and community, who really do subscribe to the "tooth fairy" style of religious belief, which I can sympathize with. However, I can't help but notice that many seem to project the infantilzed version of fundamentalist tooth fairy god worshiping as the standard operating procedure for all theists everywhere. Maybe if you stopped to ask what philosophical positions, what experiences in that theist's life led them to believe what they did, you'd come away with an understanding that not all theists are drooling, intellectual malcompetents, but people with their own story to tell from their own perspective; that they aren't mindless simpletons who all think like a hivemind and can't handle basic disagreements; and perhaps even you would learn that not all theists became theists because it was sledgehammed down their throats by overbearing parents who utilized fear and shame as a constant means of enforcing obedience. If on the other hand, you'd rather sit around all day musing over how irrational and stupid one must be to even consider believing in a god and would rather create a one-size-fits-all psychoanalytical profile of every theist based on the bat-shit insane fundie lady down the road who thinks the devil speaks to her through her television and beats her kids if she suspects them of being gay, well then I don't really know what makes you think you're entitled to not have your own beliefs distorted, mocked, and misunderstood by some asshole apologist preaching about how you're a gluttonous sinner who deserves to burn in hell.
Take a page out of the Jew's book: right living over right believing.
Sound familiar? It should, because this is the exact same thinking of Christian apologists. You know, those naive assholes who make a stop around here every once in a while to try and share the good news and transform you into boyscouts for Jesus? Some of you fall for the same mode of thinking that they do, which is an emphasis on right believing as opposed to right living. My best friend for the past year is a believing Jew, a people I'm familiar with since my mom's side is Jewish. She's a wonderful person, I don't think less of her for believing in god, and I bet the aforementioned kind of atheist couldn't name the first thing about what type of beliefs she holds to or how she incorporates her religious beliefs into her life, besides some snarky put down or cookie cutter dismissal about being a theist. She's remarked how this mode of "atheistic apologetics" is almost exclusive to atheist goys. Jewish atheists, who are rather common in Reform Judaism, think about religion from an entirely different angle than ex-Christian and ex-Muslim atheists, because Jews heavily emphasize right living over right believing. You'll meet plenty of Jewish atheists or self-proclaimed "agnostics," but you'll almost never meet a Jewish anti-theist.
Some ex-Christians turned atheist, particularly those from Evangelical branches, tend to color their perception of religion based on their negative experiences during their upbringing. For those who leave religion out of anger and hurt, they tend to utilize the negative traits of their religion of upbringing as a lens upon which they view all other religions. If you were raised in the type of actual "tooth fairy" religious thinking, which does exist, you used religion as a security blanket to shield yourself from the outside world, probably lived in a religiously strict community where people were ostracized for deviating from the norm, and likely lived in constant state of stifled suppression where people weren't honest with their thoughts and feelings out of fear of being shunned. If that was your experience with religion, it's hardly surprising you might think that's how religion has been for everyone, and commit yourself to convincing theists of how wrong their worldview is using your own experience as a guideline.
Obviously that's not meant to be a hard and fast rule, but I can't help but notice how anti-theists seem to be engage in an almost missionary like work of their own to convince theists how misguided they are and that they'd be better off ditching religion because, hey, it worked for them! Catholic Lady I'm sure can vouch how often she's been told how much better off she'd be without Catholicism, and I doubt she actually takes offense to that since I'm sure she thinks many would be better off with Christianity and can understand where you would be coming from. But you know what she doesn't do? Insinuate that you're intellectually inferior for being an atheist and treat you like you're broken and that she needs to repair you. I can not say the same for how some others have treated her during her tenure here. Sure, she knew the price of admission in joining an atheist forum, and believe me, she's been more than capable of taking the punishment some of you dole out, she's still here after all. In many ways though, I see her as more intellectually curious than some of the atheists on her who treat her like garbage, because she wanted to know what the perspectives were of people who thought different than her. Some of you will readily admit how little a fuck you could give of learning the perspective of a theist, what use is learning a perspective from somebody that believes in mythical tooth fairies, after all? If that's your attitude, you're subscribing to a mode of thinking far more damaging to your intellectual integrity than something as innocuous as holding a belief in god. You're not here for discussion, you're here to circle jerk in an echo chamber of those whom agree with you and would love nothing better than to reaffirm all day with you about how theists, all theists, are indeed really just that retarded. Why can't they be smart and rational like you, the atheist?
We all know fundies are particularly common among evangelicals and indeed I used to think a reasonable, likable evangelical I could relate to would be impossible. That was, of course, until I met Kingpin. He had more intriguing insights and was an all-around better poster than many of my fellow snarky, dime-a-dozen, "rational" non-believers. I still consider him a rare find in those communities, somebody who acted in the manner that he believed Jesus would want him to and to truly follow in his footsteps rather than use his religion as cudgel to pummel into submission those who didn't believe correctly and castigate outsiders with wanton abandon, but he proved to me they exist, and my own opinion of the truth value of his beliefs had no bearing on my views of who he was as a person. I respected him not despite his beliefs, but independent of them.
Some of you don't seem to know how to do this, which is why I call you bigots. Some of you come here to vent your frustrations about your friends, family, and community, who really do subscribe to the "tooth fairy" style of religious belief, which I can sympathize with. However, I can't help but notice that many seem to project the infantilzed version of fundamentalist tooth fairy god worshiping as the standard operating procedure for all theists everywhere. Maybe if you stopped to ask what philosophical positions, what experiences in that theist's life led them to believe what they did, you'd come away with an understanding that not all theists are drooling, intellectual malcompetents, but people with their own story to tell from their own perspective; that they aren't mindless simpletons who all think like a hivemind and can't handle basic disagreements; and perhaps even you would learn that not all theists became theists because it was sledgehammed down their throats by overbearing parents who utilized fear and shame as a constant means of enforcing obedience. If on the other hand, you'd rather sit around all day musing over how irrational and stupid one must be to even consider believing in a god and would rather create a one-size-fits-all psychoanalytical profile of every theist based on the bat-shit insane fundie lady down the road who thinks the devil speaks to her through her television and beats her kids if she suspects them of being gay, well then I don't really know what makes you think you're entitled to not have your own beliefs distorted, mocked, and misunderstood by some asshole apologist preaching about how you're a gluttonous sinner who deserves to burn in hell.
Take a page out of the Jew's book: right living over right believing.
freedomfromfallacy » I'm weighing my tears to see if the happy ones weigh the same as the sad ones.
