(May 30, 2017 at 10:42 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: I'm interested in getting the Christian perspective on my thoughts below. I've posed them within threads before, but have yet to come across a counter POV. (I'm sure I'll get plenty here. [emoji41])
If God knew inherently from the "moment" he decided to create humanity that we could never possibly satisfy his ideal, and went ahead with his creation anyway, then he:
1. failed to fulfill his ideal, and therefore isn't omnipotent.
2. is wholly responsible for the failure.
How could we, as the flawed creation, possibly bear any of the responsibility for our shortcomings? If I leave my 2-year-old alone in front of plate-full of cookies with instructions not to touch, and he eats one, is it just of me to punish him afterward? I knew ahead of time the inherent "nature" of my toddler does not allow for that degree of impulse control. I have set him up to fail. Is it reasonable to hold him responsible for his disobedience?
On the other hand, if there was ever a "time" when God envisioned a particular outcome for humanity, but things unfolded differently than he originally intended, then he's not omniscient.
My understanding of the Christian narrative is that free will was always part of God's plan for humanity. So, God purposefully rigged humans with a wild card, and then blamed us when the wild card played out exactly as he knew it would? And further, he manipulated us into believing it was our fault we failed to live up to his expectations, when in fact, it could have gone no other way. He set up a thinly veiled "test" of righteousness that he knew full well Adam and Eve couldn't pass, and then used the result to lay life-long blame, guilt, and shame onto all of humanity.
From where I sit, these actions not only call god's supposed Omni-attributes into question, they do not seem to me the actions and decisions of what most would reasonably consider a "just being". Thoughts?
If your idea of Christian narritive includes the idea or hinges on the idea of 'free will' then my response for you will not be a christian one.
So If I may..
Let say God knew sin was the ultimate outcome, and you are right that makes Him responsible for all the sin in the world. That would then mean He would be obligated to eliminate or at the very least atone for sin... Meaning allow those who do not want to sin but are simply caught up in it the ability to escape the wrath of God/wage of sin...
In your idea of Christianity isn't that what Christ did?
Know it or not in the bible's version of Christianity that is indeed what Christ did. His sacrifice removes the law as our only measure of righteousness. Meaning we are not longer judged by the law to be worth of Heaven or Hell, but our worthiness comes from whether or not Christ Himself is worthy of Heaven or Hell. (if we accept his atonement) Which is why I and the bible never mentions 'free will,' But the opposite. In that we are all slaves to sin. That we were born unto sin and will die in sin no matter what. Yet God loves us anyway. For those who do not want to die in sin He has provided atonement. however for those who wish to settle in their sin and worship themselves.. there is that option as well.
That is why God allowed Sin into the Garden, and why you are plagued with it as well. Say God has placed us all @2years old infront of a plate of cookies. God does not judge on who ate the cookie, but who was sorry they did when they were told not to.
That is what this life is all about. Not whether or not we can live sin free but rather what we do when we sin. Why? so that on our final judgement we will be assured no matter what God decides, his judgement is just.
