Sin and the Blame Game

[LadyForCamus]

Except that God provided a rather simple way in which one doesn't have to bear the responsibility of their shortcomings, so there is really no excuse.

But you've missed my point. Our shortcomings are god's responsibility, not ours. They are only shortcomings to HIM, in the sense that they fall short of his imagined ideal for us. Why would we need to atone for his inability to execute the ideal?

The example you gave of your 2 year old is way off base, since a 2 year old isn't a free moral agent.

But not any less of a free moral agent than Adam and Eve, so I think it's a fair analogy. God knew A&E would screw it up, just like I know my kid is going to take that cookie.

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I'm interested in getting the Christian perspective on my thoughts below.  I've posed them within threads before, but have yet to come across a counter POV.   (I'm sure I'll get plenty here. [emoji41])


If God knew inherently from the "moment" he decided to create humanity that we could never possibly satisfy his ideal, and went ahead with his creation anyway, then he:

1.  failed to fulfill his ideal, and therefore isn't omnipotent.  

2.  is wholly responsible for the failure.  

How could we, as the flawed creation, possibly bear any of the responsibility for our shortcomings?  If I leave my 2-year-old alone in front of plate-full of cookies with instructions not to touch, and he eats one, is it just of me to punish him afterward?  I knew ahead of time the inherent "nature" of my toddler does not allow for that degree of impulse control.  I have set him up to fail.  Is it reasonable to hold him responsible for his disobedience?  

On the other hand, if there was ever a "time" when God envisioned a particular outcome for humanity, but things unfolded differently than he originally intended, then he's not omniscient.  

My understanding of the Christian narrative is that free will was always part of God's plan for humanity.  So, God purposefully rigged humans with a wild card, and then blamed us when the wild card played out exactly as he knew it would?  And further, he manipulated us into believing it was our fault we failed to live up to his expectations, when in fact, it could have gone no other way.  He set up a thinly veiled "test" of righteousness that he knew full well Adam and Eve couldn't pass, and then used the result to lay life-long blame, guilt, and shame onto all of humanity.  

From where I sit, these actions not only call god's supposed Omni-attributes into question, they do not seem to me the actions and decisions of what most would reasonably consider a "just being".  Thoughts?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

If your idea of Christian narritive includes the idea or hinges on the idea of 'free will' then my response for you will not be a christian one.

So If I may..

Let say God knew sin was the ultimate outcome, and you are right that makes Him responsible for all the sin in the world. That would then mean He would be obligated to eliminate or at the very least atone for sin... Meaning allow those who do not want to sin but are simply caught up in it the ability to escape the wrath of God/wage of sin...

But again...why should there be any wrath the flawed creation needs escape from in the first place when God himself is responsible for the flaw? I don't see how Christ is god's atonement. God is expecting US to atone for HIS actions. We are the ones being judged for behaving exactly the way we were created to behave.

I would never expect my 2-year-old to apologize for behaving like a 2-year-old, or, rather, for NOT behaving like a 20-year-old. What does he have to be sorry about? If I don't want him eating cookies, I don't leave him with cookies, because he is not capable of resisting.[/quote]

Yet God loves us anyway.

And why shouldn't he? If god is to be annoyed with anyone, it should be with himself, for not doing it right in the first place. Why on earth are we deserving of his punishment? Why are we being judged for actions we have no control over?