Sin and the Blame Game

[Drich]

But again...why should there be any wrath the flawed creation needs escape from in the first place when God himself is responsible for the flaw?

Because sin in this instance is not a flaw but an opportunity. to produce the fruit that is in your heart. meaning here sin yields or shows you who you truly are away from the known glory of God... Meaning do you feel entitled to your sin, or do you repent of it even when there is no known threat to have you do so?

 I don't see how Christ is god's atonement.

 It's centered around the idea that if one man Adam can bring sin into the world then one man Christ if He lives a perfect life before God, can offer Himself the perfect sin sacrifice.

Because again the wage of sin is death if we sin only once in our life time, our flesh and spirit are condemned to die. to die in the flesh and to die in the spirit/hell. When Christ died in the flesh He was also separated from God/died to God spiritually. Then upon His resurrection was reborn or born again, showing that God the son had power over death.

Now that Jesus has the power of life and death He vows to resurrect everyone to be judged. Those in whom He has paid our spiritual sin debt will move on to eternal life and those He has not, will be destroyed in Hell.

God is expecting US to atone for HIS actions.

No one forces you to sin. All God did was allow us to be aware of sin and be accountable for it.

 We are the ones being judged for behaving exactly the way we were created to behave.  

not all of "us."
We do not all have the same 'Father.'

I would never expect my 2-year-old to apologize for behaving like a 2-year-old,

because you don't want to hold you kid accountable for his actions doesnot mean you will escape accountability for yourself.

or, rather, for NOT behaving like a 20-year-old.

Then put a 0 behind the 2 in this analogy and make the 2 year old a 20 year old. make the cookie your car and instead of eating it he wrecks it even after you said do not drive it!!

 What does he have to be sorry about?

 with the 20 year old disobeying and wrecking the family car. with the 2 year old disobeying and eating cookies.

If I don't want him eating cookies, I don't leave him with cookies, because he is not capable of resisting.

seriously?? never had a kid hunt down and find the cookie stash?

Yet God loves us anyway.

And why shouldn't he?

Because we do not love or respect Him enough to acknoweledge what has been done for us.

 If god is to be annoyed with anyone, it should be with himself, for not doing it right in the first place.

what would the right thing be?
just put everyone in heaven untested?
He already did that once with the angels remember... 1/3 of them rebelled and left.
So why not do it this way this time? it cleaner and we get to live out exactly who we are.

 Why on earth are we deserving of his punishment?  

because you've sinned.

Why are we being judged for actions we have no control over?  

So, just following orders frow,campus?
If that excuse does not work for us in the world then why would it work for God who knows better? A God who has provided you with an opportunity to live apart from the law?

Or do you not understand the term?

It means 'we' live not being judged by the law. (kinda how you want to without any effort.) We do so simply by acknowledging what God has done to provide us with this opportunity.)

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Don't you think the bigger problem about eating forbidden fruit is that God lied. Woman said, "Of course, we may eat it; it is only the fruit from the tree of the center of the Garden that we may not eat. God says we must not eat it or touch it or we will die." And the Serpent says, "That's a lie! You will not die." So the question becomes, Did Adam and Eve die? No, they did not die.

In fact they did die. they were immortal beings who's being could stand to be in the full glory of God and not be destroyed.. What ever Adam and eve were while in the garden they ceased being or rather died.

Now if we take God's comment literally, they should have died. And yet Gen. 5:5 says, "All the days that Adam lived were 930 years and he died." And Adam and Eve should not be punished for following the truth. The only reason they are punished is that God has more powerful magic..

total of 930 years on this earth. meaning the clock does not include garden time.

So if god lies he is not perfect and if he is not perfect he can't be god.

and if you just can see the truth because you elect to follow a corrupt narrative?

But yeah if god wanted humans to behave certain way (like let's say saints) he should have made them that way and you can't say it's free will because are saints then lacking free will or were they made to choose "well"? And also in many places in the Bible it is actually said that everything is predetermined and there is no free will and what people will do and choose is already predetermined, like:

And if God does not want people to live like saints, just repent of sin when it happens, He should be responsible for that as well no?

Oh, but look he already beat us to the punch!

Ephesians 1:4-5 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will

Meaning we are only perfect because Christ is perfect. It does not say we are perfect apart from Christ.

Romans 8:29-30 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Ephesians 2:10, We are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them;

Psalms 139:16 Your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be

1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

and so on...

Amen!

So what the problem is?

Is it because you feel like you are not apart of the fold? because you currently doubt God you can not be one of the predestined?

Did Thomas/doubting Thomas always believe? was He not one of the chosen? Did Paul/Saul of Tarsus always believe? was He not apart of the chosen?

who are you to say whether or not you have been chosen? Being chosen has nothing to do with what you believe or even want.