A question about original sin.

[Godscreated]

{hide]Annatar, your friend was telling you the truth about original sin. No all the events before Christ had to be, the flood removed all the people from the face of the earth so that God could start anew with mankind, they had become so evil there was no hope for humanity unless God destroyed them and started over with Noah and his family. I could go on about Abraham, the nation of Israel formed in Egypt, the Exodus and ect. but it would be a wall of text and many here would be sure to let me know it. What God did was to work through history to bring His Son into this world at the appropriate time so the Gospel of Jesus could be spread throughout the world. Like your friend told you we are not responsible for the sin of Adam and Eve, however that sin brought the ability for all to sin into this creation and the innocence of man was lost, so now we are held accountable for our own sins and no one elses, with Jesus as our savior we have the hope to escape our sin but only if we believe.[/hide]

If I remember correctly, god had to be all powerful right? So how come there was no other way than destroying every soul in the world including innocent children?? And remember, It was not their fault to be such sinners, It was because they were cursed by their ancestors (Adam and Eve not apes). So he killed all those people just to make things go according to his plan? Damn, its more idiotic than I thought.. And you're saying that the guy who came up with those ideas, also created the whole universe??
I asked this question, because I wanted to demonstrate how stupid you sound when you try to explain it. Thank you Godschild for proving my point...

That was not you stated point and since you do not care to understand then why have us waste so much time on your petty joke.

Well well well, don't get too mad now.. It's not that I don't care to understand, it's just I understand quite clearly but you seem to struggle understanding how your logic fails when you try to explain it. So my question was not a joke, but your answer kinda was... My question was kind a rhetorical question to demonstrate how silly your idea of original sin was. I knew you'd came up with something like that, but I didn't expect you would say "all the things before Christ had to be and there was no other way" that was really bullshit, even by the theists standards. You practically said god made all those people suffer so that he can bring his son into earth on exact time he foretold he would. Nevertheless, I answered your reply, and explained how your logic fails, so it would be nice to hear something about my answer, and not just some complains..

I'm not mad, why would you think that? You do not understand, I do not struggle with my understanding of scriptures and I've never tried to explain my logic. You asked the question not to learn but to make light of what christians believe, so why should I take you seriously, you give me no reason to.
God made no one suffer they brought that upon themselves, there is a price to be paid for unrepented sin. Yes all the events had to happen before Christ came, God saw the future and knew the perfect time to place Christ in history, God did not make the future mankind has made this world into what it is, we have abused the freewill God gave us, so history is what it is, you my friend just as I am are a part of this messed up world and we both have contributed to it, I have asked forgiveness for my part and God through His grace has forgiven me, what about you....

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(Today 06:39)Godschild Wrote: Man you sure wasted a lot of time with your nonsense, please try to spend it more wisely. I know you were trying to make a joke of innocence but you did not, only made yourself look... well silly. Innocence as in "not guilty." Also how is it that the Tree of Life was off limits, God told Adam that only the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was off limits. The reason God took the Tree of Life from the Garden of Eden was so that man would not have to live eternally in sin. Who told you that we were paying for the sin of disobedience by Adam and Eve, this is not the case, we are responsible only for our sin and no one else sin. When Adam and Eve sinned against God it brought the nature of sin into this world and thus gave all of mankind the ability to sin, so you are responsible for your sin and I'm responsible for my sin and unforgiven sin is why one winds up in hell. Forgiveness only comes through the Son of God "our Christ" and is available to everyone who desires it.

Romans 5:18-19 (KJV)

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

I do believe you have proven what I said, thank you. You think this verse says that you will pay for the sin of Adam, your wrong you pay for your sin only. You sure have an upside-down way of looking at scripture. You are trying to blame God for your sin, man up and accept that what you do is of your own making through the freewill of your life,

Posted by Doubting Thomas
I believe even the Catholic church states that the Adam & Eve story is allegorical...

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Yet, if the story of Adam and Eve were allegorical, and Adam is the cause of sin coming into the world, why then would Jesus have died to take away the worlds sins that were only here because of Adam's transgression in the garden?

I agree with the observation that the whole of the creation epic including the creation of sin is silly. While it is true that without that Christianity doesn't work.

The Satanist Anton LaVey was famous for having said, the Devil is the best friend the church ever had. He's kept them in business all these years.

So true. As long as people can be led to believe they're unworthy of the love of god for being born sinners, they'll strive to overcome that deficit in order to appease the god that made them so. And those who teach how that's done, afford themselves as the ministers of understanding the way, lead people to believe god need be worshiped and feared in order for the faithful to be in keeping with what it means to be wise and honor god, churches will always be a conduit between the damned and salvation.

What a lot of Christians fail to realize, when they argue that god is perfect and not at all like what he's described as being in the Bible, and that he's not responsible for sin coming into the world. He's not responsible for the fall of man from grace, is that god, being a supreme all knowing ever present all powerful creator of all things, made everything that is come to pass.

Through Adam sin was let to come into the world. But what would sin be if it wasn't for god's ordaining it so? Sin is that what is an offense against god. And yet, how can someone offend a supreme being that knows everything before it's to come to pass? And to offend the creator in the first place is to accept the creator created an imperfect being in mankind, which is impossible for a perfect immutable supreme being to do, save by it's will to do so.

Of course what's being argued here is man made fiction. Authored and compiled by different councils over the years many centuries past, so as to coral the sheep who believe it all to be true and officiate over them so that they feel their human nature is something to be ashamed and afraid of, less one offend the god that created imperfect humans in the beginning and their nature in the first place.

Imagine how free Christians would be if they did not first believe god does not approve of who they are.

Psalm 51:5 (KJV)
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

It's like unto the abused child scenario. The child thinks there's something wrong with them that causes their parent(s) to make them suffer so. And so the child, in order to atone for whatever it is they may do to offend their parent, cleave unto that parent in the hopes their striving to do their very best will please them so they no longer hurt the child.
But it never works. Because the problem is not with the child. The problem is that the parent is an abusive violent individual and the child is simply an excuse for that cowardice to show itself.

Sin would not exist if not for god's will making it so. And yet what are Christians really saving themselves from and for, if not that universal parent, cop, judge?

Isaiah 45:7 (KJV)
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

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Forming light, and preparing darkness, Making peace, and preparing evil, I [am] Jehovah, doing all these things.

Young's literal translation. Take your namby pamby NISV back to liberal land.

I've gone over this verse and it's interpretation in another post with AnyMouse, C Rod is correct in the interpretation. I use the New American Standard and it basicly says the same thing, the NAS is generally accepted as the best translation we have to date. The word "evil" is not a literal translation, calamaity is the proper translation.

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Well well well, don't get too mad now.. It's not that I don't care to understand, it's just I understand quite clearly but you seem to struggle understanding how your logic fails when you try to explain it. So my question was not a joke, but your answer kinda was... I knew you'd came up with something like that, but I didn't expect you would say "all the things before Christ had to be and there was no other way" that was really bullshit, even by the theists standards. You practically said god made all those people suffer so that he can bring his son into earth on exact time he foretold he would. Nevertheless, I answered your reply, and explained how your logic fails, so it would be good to hear something about my answer, and not just some complains..

It is like those crazy e.g. firemen, who set buildings on fire, just to be the first one on scene and hailed as a hero.. '-_-

If that's directed at me I'm not looking to be a hero, as a matter of fact I'm far from it, I'm here to learn and you guys give me a lot of opportunity do do that thank you..... Godschild