(July 22, 2011 at 1:03 am)C Rod Wrote: I am new to all this religious debate about God and Christianity, I have a hard time understanding this omni- stuff that you assume God is so as to prove a contradiction with how things are in this world in which what is perfect(God) is not with us and yet choice alludes you...God’s “omni” Attributes
Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence? If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, you are there. If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle on the far side of the sea, even there your hand will guide me, your right hand will hold me fast (Psalm 139:7-10, NIV).
Quote:... He gave us a chance to be perfect...Choice and free will does not elude the atheist. Atheists know that they are responsible for their actions and they either enjoy the fruits of their choice, or they suffer the consequences. However, no Devil made us do the wrong thing. Our sinful nature was not responsible for our wrong choice. It was our rational or irrational decision that let things come to pass.
And no, god did not give humans a chance to be perfect. He created them in his image and likeness. In other words, they were replicas of their creator who, if perfect, could have created nothing less than perfect beings.
Now some argue that they were innocent, not guilty of any wrong doing at all, the first of our kind Adam and Eve. Well of course, that goes without saying. They were newborns who did not possess the intellect to exercise free will, rational discrimination between choosing good or wrong behavior, or disobeying what they would be incapable of understanding.
We know this because god planted the tree of temptation in his garden paradise. The tree of knowledge (Gnosis) of good and evil. The fruits of which god forbid the first couple to eat of. And yet, in order to disobey that command even at the behest of the serpent Satan, Eve, and later Adam who was persuaded by Eve to eat too, would have had to understand what it meant to discriminate and make a conscious choice between good, obeying god, and evil in obeying Satan instead, in order to exercise their own volition. Which they didn't have because they did not possess the capacity to rationalize the consequences of choice, because they did not yet possess an understanding of virtue or immorality.
But god did. It was his tree, planted in his garden of paradise by his volition, that could not have truly been paradise because the garden contained the one tree that bore the fruit that would denote the very antithesis of paradise. The fruit of evil. The fruit that would bestow within those who ate of it a conscious understanding of immorality. As well as a conscious understanding of virtue. But that fruits of evil flourished in god's creation, a god that is omniscient, knows all things from before time unto infinity, makes paradise flawed for the presence of evil therein.
That tree of good and evil was the temptation of the first humans that the serpent exploited in order to initiate the fall of humankind. Which could not have been done if god had not created the tree in the first place. And not only with the fruit of that tree, but with the presence of the serpent Satan that gained entry into paradise, in the midst of omnipresence. Meaning god's all knowing all powerful (Omnipotent) presence is everywhere at all times and thus knows all things that occur.
So no, in the presence of omniscient omnipresence, when the Bible says not even the highest Heavens can contain god, omnipotence, in the beginning, humans never had a chance to be perfect. Because they weren't made perfect in the first place, when they were made flawed due to their following the path of their gods manifest destiny by eating of the fruit that brought evil into the world, by god's own devices.
Quote:I tell you the bible gives claims to facts or you can just know your gonna die for certainly that is your hope.The Bible gives claims to that what inspires faith. God is not a fact. If god were a matter of fact, religions dedicated to honoring and worshiping god would not be known as religious faiths. Instead they would be referred to as institutions promoting and honoring spiritual facts. Faith precludes fact. Faith is hope that all that is held sacred is true.
The supreme being of the Bible, holding the title of god, must be perfect. And yet, his own words, "god's breath", the Bible inspired by him as it's believed to be, contains scripture that declares god is not perfect.
He tempted the first of our kind by design, allowing evil into his paradise and then set a rule for occupation of it that evil should not come to the awareness of Adam and Eve, that they should not eat of the fruits, knowing full well that they would.
He watched, as Satan, his antithesis, slithered into the garden and into the very tree that was more in keeping with his characteristics, so that he might tempt those who did not possess the intellect to understand what that meant.
Throughout the Bible god exhibits an evil demeanor. An immoral character. That what in us, is considered a sinful nature. God get's angry, hates, seeks vengeance, murders men women the unborn and children. Every short coming humans have, god exhibits throughout the Bible. If god hates sin, then why did he create it to come into being? To come into the world, through his own omniscient omnipotent machinations?
Yes, I shall die. Amid all the conflicts and chaos that ensue in the world over this one topic alone; religion, death is the one common factor amid all people involved in the debate. However, I shall not have lived holding faith in a god faith that calls me sinner, when the Bible chapter and verse proves if that is true then I am indeed created in the image and likeness of the universal transgressor.
"In life you can never be too kind or too fair; everyone you meet is carrying a heavy load. When you go through your day expressing kindness and courtesy to all you meet, you leave behind a feeling of warmth and good cheer, and you help alleviate the burdens everyone is struggling with."
Brian Tracy
Brian Tracy