RE: Do you think religion is holding society back?
June 28, 2017 at 9:49 am
(This post was last modified: June 28, 2017 at 10:17 am by SteveII.)
(June 27, 2017 at 10:38 pm)Fireball Wrote:(June 27, 2017 at 5:09 pm)SteveII Wrote: To answer the thread question: Do you think religion is holding society back?, you have to define "back from what".
Scientifically, no. In fact, Christianity was instrumental in the early progress of modern science (that's why it developed almost entirely in the west) because it taught that the world and nature was created and entirely discoverable and NOT endowed with spiritual or mystical qualities--like the rest of the world still believed.
Some Utopian society? No. I think it has been proven over and over again that people do not play nicely with other different than themselves. I don't think there is any evidence that religious differences has done anywhere near the harm than non religious events of history.
Morality? No. In fact, I think religion has helped develop the general morality we see today in western countries. Most of us would agree that the western morality is superior to other parts of the world where differences arise.
Imploding? Yes. No matter what you think about religion, it has a very real, largely positive, psychological effect on people
How someone can be this wrong and still draw breath is a testimony to the vitality of the human organism, endowed by evolution.[1] If one considers in a rational way what harm people can use religion for, religion can be seen to be a pustule on the entire body of humankind, not just the backside.
Holding back? How about where the RCC has only recently allowed that Galileo was actually right? Maybe you can bring Giordano Bruno back from right before he was burned at the stake for heresy? Maybe you can also bring back those people who were tortured during the Inquisition? [2] FFS, you people apologizing for religion ought to be ashamed of yourselves. [3]
Morality? Don't delude yourself. Go look at the reality of what modern day evangelicals are doing in Uganda, just for example. It isn't any different from the kind of sickness visited on people since religion gained a foothold in the human psyche, millenia ago. I don't generally respond to posts like yours because of the amount of ignorance of xtian (and Muslim, for that matter) arrogance at what your kind claim to be the case for beneficial aspects of their religion. The reality is that the amount of horror visited on their fellow human beings because of religion is incalculable. [4]
1. Your attempt a cleverness is missing the mark in cleverness, reasoning, and relevance.
2. Do you know anything about the dispute with Galileo? Giordano Bruno was burned for his theological views. Regardless of any one person/event/dispute you can bring up, none of these rise to the level of holding back science--evidenced by the fact there were a 1000 scientist working and writing for every one that had a dispute with the Catholic church. Show me where the actual policy of the church was to curtail scientific discovery--or in the absence of that, show me where a series of organized events were unmistakably designed to do so.
3. Whose apologizing for anything? Did you here me say I was sorry for anything--ever? If you think an apologist has anything to do with apologizing, you need to look up those words so you don't embarrass yourself again.
4. Now you are just making the very common atheist assertions that are never justified/defended with actual facts and reasoning. You will always find people doing wrong things in the name of Christianity. However, the fact will always remain that if the action was not based on the teachings of the NT, then your dispute is not with the religion, it is with the person(s). Regarding the actual question I was answering, then tell me where atheism has developed a comparable or superior morality anywhere in the world in any time period.
(June 28, 2017 at 7:44 am)Whateverist Wrote:Galileo was not burned (not even harmed) and his dispute with the pope was about political disdain and not over science.(June 27, 2017 at 10:38 pm)Fireball Wrote: How someone can be this wrong and still draw breath is a testimony to the vitality of the human organism, endowed by evolution. If one considers in a rational way what harm people can use religion for, religion can be seen to be a pustule on the entire body of humankind, not just the backside.
Holding back? How about where the RCC has only recently allowed that Galileo was actually right? Maybe you can bring Giordano Bruno back from right before he was burned at the stake for heresy? Maybe you can also bring back those people who were tortured during the Inquisition? FFS, you people apologizing for religion ought to be ashamed of yourselves.
Morality? Don't delude yourself. Go look at the reality of what modern day evangelicals are doing in Uganda, just for example. It isn't any different from the kind of sickness visited on people since religion gained a foothold in the human psyche, millenia ago. I don't generally respond to posts like yours because of the amount of ignorance of xtian (and Muslim, for that matter) arrogance at what your kind claim to be the case for beneficial aspects of their religion. The reality is that the amount of horror visited on their fellow human beings because of religion is incalculable.
All good examples of the evil religion can do. I think it happens because they believe what they do is for a greater good. Sorry about the flames, Galileo, but it is God's work we do! Wipe out some infidel? Why not, we do it for God! Anytime people locate the rationale for their action outside themselves, there is reason to worry. If people want to entertain the notion that there is something beyond themselves I'd greatly appreciate it if they'd remain a little more humble about the extent to which they know what it wants from them. Invariably, what it wants ends up being what they want but stripped of any self doubt.
If you have a beef with a decision the Catholic Church made, then criticize them by name. Lumping it into "religion" and then using as a reason for some other conclusion is disingenuous and inaccurate.
(June 27, 2017 at 5:30 pm)Khemikal Wrote:Surveying all the world's civilizations up until that point seems to indicate that the Christian worldview was important in the development of modern science. At the very least, it was the most conducive worldview up to that point.(June 27, 2017 at 5:09 pm)SteveII Wrote: To answer the thread question: Do you think religion is holding society back?, you have to define "back from what".Oh, is that how that happened? -and here I thought it was some sort of period of enlightenment, where rationality became prominant, on the backs of some sort of, oh..whats the word..renaissance, of classical pagan thinking?
Scientifically, no. In fact, Christianity was instrumental in the early progress of modern science (that's why it developed almost entirely in the west) because it taught that the world and nature was created and entirely discoverable and NOT endowed with spiritual or mystical qualities--like the rest of the world still believed.
Turns out the christers opened their bibles and christed all the science into existence.