Help with a Catholic

[Hurny]

That's his definition. Legally, a fetus is not a "person." End of story.

I wonder how many black, crack-addicted, babies his fucking church helps?

well like I said before as he stated the objective morality we are debating about isn't defined by the law, so like my previous post above he says evil things have often been legal at some times and illegal at others but this doesn't change whether something is right or wrong. I think you'd agree that if suddenly it became legal to kill all non-believers we would say that that is an evil law and and evil action, the law doesn't just make it right.

So if I were to get anywhere with him on the person issue I would have to be able to show in someway by reason why we say that the fetus isn't a person. To save us some time I will tell you a few of the arguments he already used against me. Whenever I would say the fetus isn't a person because of _____... he would find an example of an already born person with the same deficiency and show me that I believed that that human was a person and so I would also have to by that logic agree that the fetus is a person. Size, handicap, dependant or whatever else I couldn't find one situation where such a deficiency would justify killing a born person so he says it shouldn't justify killing an unborn person either.

So that is where I am at more or less with the abortion debate.

Then as far as the attacks on his church, like I said from the evidence he has shown me they seem to actually do quite a bit to help both the children and the mothers in these cases so I think I'm only hurting my case by trying to further that advance.

The black baby strategy in particular I think is probably not a good approach considering the fact that margaret sanger herself had an agenda to exterminate the black people.
"We should hire three or four colored ministers, preferably with social-service backgrounds, and with engaging personalities. The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal. We don't want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population. and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members."
Margaret Sanger's December 19, 1939 letter to Dr. Clarence Gamble, 255 Adams Street, Milton, Massachusetts.

She was something of an evil lady when you look into it