(July 24, 2011 at 9:50 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Why does HIS morality count more than that of a woman who does not want to bring another child into the world? He sounds like a self-righteous twat frankly who thinks that his particular fairy tale vision of the world should be forced down everyone else's throat.
At the end of the day these people are simply ignorant and if you engage with them on their terms you'll lose.
As the saying goes: never mud wrestle with a pig....you both end up dirty and the pig likes it.
He isn't exactly saying that it is his morality (although it is what he believes) he is saying that it is The Objective Morality that is binding on all people, so he's not saying that it is 'his' belief that he wants to cram down everyone's throats but he seems to be saying that there is objective right and wrong actions and the killing of an innocent person violates such an objective standard.
I guess what it comes down to on the abortion debate between us is this: "Is it objectively wrong to kill and innocent person?"
His "terms" as you say seem to be nothing more than the terms of reason which is exactly if I understand it correctly the terms that freethinkers like ourselves are always appealing too. So I am a little worried in this situation because he is battling us here on the grounds of reason alone without using a religious authority and I can't seem to beat him (which is why I am here). He is saying that it is a fact of natural law that killing and innocent person is wrong and that an unborn fetus is an innocent person.
So the way I see it is that I guess I'm asking for help from someone to be able to on the grounds of reason show either that A) killing an innocent person isn't wrong (which I don't really think can be done other then to say there is no such thing as morality at all) or B) the fetus isn't a person.
I realize a lot of us might not agree with his church but like I've tried to say a few times from what he has shown me they seem to be decent people with honest motives trying to do good work, so if you could please give me some advice on how to address this abortion issue and the issue of objective truth without appealing to attacks against his person or his religion.
Sorry to be so objective to so many of your responses its just that he has already answered a lot of these objections from me and I'm sort of having a crisis of "non faith" you might say and I'm wondering how I'm going to address these difficult questions.
