Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: December 23, 2024, 10:45 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Objective morality as a proper basic belief
RE: Objective morality as a proper basic belief
(July 12, 2017 at 6:26 pm)Inkfeather132 Wrote:
(July 12, 2017 at 5:07 pm)SteveII Wrote: 1. Yes.
2. That does not logically follow. God has rights, authority, responsibility, knowledge, and perfect moral clarity that we do not have.

Alright then, now we have that god will not tell us to do something immoral, correct?
My next question then is, will he ever change his morality? For instance, will he command people to do something (thereby making it moral) and then later command them to do the opposite (thereby making the opposite moral and the original immoral)?

And I thought of another one, if god does something and gives his reason for doing it, can I do the same thing if I have the same reason he did?

God could not tell us to do something immoral. Since his nature can't change, every command will be moral at the time of the command or for the intended duration of the command. 

You do not have the same rights, authority, responsibility, knowledge, and perfect moral clarity that God does, so...No.

(July 12, 2017 at 7:35 pm)Tizheruk Wrote:
(July 12, 2017 at 6:26 pm)Inkfeather132 Wrote: Alright then, now we have that god will not tell us to do something immoral, correct?
My next question then is, will he ever change his morality? For instance, will he command people to do something (thereby making it moral) and then later command them to do the opposite (thereby making the opposite moral and the original immoral)?

And I thought of another one, if god does something and gives his reason for doing it, can I do the same thing if I have the same reason he did?

Note all the assertions in Steves argument if only he could answer in a way that does not collapse back into the dilemma .

What rights? What grants him those rights? why should anyone care about his rights ?

Same goes for authority

Having a responsibility does make it moral

Having knowledge does not make the one moral  

perfect moral clarity begs the question and even having clarity does not make one moral

And none of this matters because it's arbitrarily assigned

You didn't read back far enough. I posted this earlier:

The first horn "is something good because the gods will it" or
The second horn "do the gods will it because it is good?” but now 
The third option (that has no unwanted conclusion): it is not God's will that defines the good but his unchanging nature that governs his will and his commands to us. 

With a third option, there is no dilemma. 

Are God's eternal unchanging moral properties arbitrary? Could they have been any other way? Perhaps, perhaps not--I don't think that is clear. I don't think it matters however, because you need God's nature to be arbitrary not in the sense that if could have been different, but that it still can be different.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
RE: Objective morality as a proper basic belief - by SteveII - July 12, 2017 at 7:39 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Finally an atheist proper, with views and questions Lucian 62 3864 June 12, 2024 at 10:32 pm
Last Post: Prycejosh1987
  The Possibly Proper Death Litany, aka ... Gawdzilla Sama 11 1435 December 18, 2023 at 1:15 pm
Last Post: Mister Agenda
  Morality Kingpin 101 8932 May 31, 2023 at 6:48 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  How do I deal with the belief that maybe... Just maybe... God exists and I'm... Gentle_Idiot 75 8907 November 23, 2022 at 5:34 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  A Case for Inherent Morality JohnJubinsky 66 8700 June 22, 2021 at 10:35 am
Last Post: John 6IX Breezy
  Morality without God Superjock 102 11857 June 17, 2021 at 6:10 pm
Last Post: Ranjr
  Belief in God is a clinic Interaktive 55 7603 April 1, 2019 at 10:55 pm
Last Post: LostLocke
  Is atheism a belief? Agnostico 1023 108827 March 16, 2019 at 1:42 pm
Last Post: Catharsis
  Morality Agnostico 337 46726 January 30, 2019 at 6:00 pm
Last Post: vulcanlogician
  Do you know that homeopathy doesn't work, or do you just lack belief that it does? I_am_not_mafia 24 6224 August 25, 2018 at 4:34 am
Last Post: EgoDeath



Users browsing this thread: 26 Guest(s)