Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: December 23, 2024, 11:03 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Objective morality as a proper basic belief
RE: Objective morality as a proper basic belief
(July 16, 2017 at 8:39 pm)mordant Wrote:
(July 16, 2017 at 8:11 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote: Morality itself is not objective, you can get to objective moral conclusions depending on the foundation you are using to measure it. For example, if you use well-being as a foundation, then it is objectively immoral to chop off somebody's head.
Unless, apparently, you're chopping off the head of a despot who caused massive ill-being to millions.

Everything is contextual, even with wellbeing as a basis.

I'm having a debate with a theist on another forum who insists that morality is objective. His go-to example is the apologist canard of "torturing innocent babies purely for personal pleasure", or in other words, "the most contrived example I can possibly concoct that you would be afraid to disagree with." Since "everyone agrees" that torturing innocents is objectively wrong, then at least some morality is objective.

I think this is confusing clarity with objectivity. There's nothing particularly objective about the visceral reaction most people would have to torturing innocents. It's just that virtually all societies in all eras instinctively sanction such behavior because allowing it would make the society collapse rather quickly. There are a handful of things like this that virtually no one disagrees with, but that does not make it objective.
Well-being was just one example, what ever context you wish to add to your foundation would change how you view each moral decision. If your foundation is simply well-being, then chopping off somebody's head is objectively detrimental to their well being. The point being that even if your morality is founded on subjective foundations you can still reach objective conclusions based on those foundations.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
RE: Objective morality as a proper basic belief - by Mr.wizard - July 16, 2017 at 8:47 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Finally an atheist proper, with views and questions Lucian 62 3864 June 12, 2024 at 10:32 pm
Last Post: Prycejosh1987
  The Possibly Proper Death Litany, aka ... Gawdzilla Sama 11 1435 December 18, 2023 at 1:15 pm
Last Post: Mister Agenda
  Morality Kingpin 101 8932 May 31, 2023 at 6:48 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  How do I deal with the belief that maybe... Just maybe... God exists and I'm... Gentle_Idiot 75 8907 November 23, 2022 at 5:34 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  A Case for Inherent Morality JohnJubinsky 66 8700 June 22, 2021 at 10:35 am
Last Post: John 6IX Breezy
  Morality without God Superjock 102 11857 June 17, 2021 at 6:10 pm
Last Post: Ranjr
  Belief in God is a clinic Interaktive 55 7604 April 1, 2019 at 10:55 pm
Last Post: LostLocke
  Is atheism a belief? Agnostico 1023 108828 March 16, 2019 at 1:42 pm
Last Post: Catharsis
  Morality Agnostico 337 46726 January 30, 2019 at 6:00 pm
Last Post: vulcanlogician
  Do you know that homeopathy doesn't work, or do you just lack belief that it does? I_am_not_mafia 24 6224 August 25, 2018 at 4:34 am
Last Post: EgoDeath



Users browsing this thread: 21 Guest(s)