RE: Four proofs of the nonexistence of God
July 20, 2017 at 2:47 pm
(This post was last modified: July 20, 2017 at 2:53 pm by RoadRunner79.)
(July 20, 2017 at 12:55 pm)Jehanne Wrote:(July 20, 2017 at 12:41 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: What I am wondering, is how do you determine that something is not caused by anything? I may have suspicions about the cause of these particles, but I do not know what causes them. And yet I do believe that nothing provides neither a necessary nor sufficient reason for the effect. "I do not know" does not lead me to the conclusion that their is no cause. The principle of causality is foundational to science and really a basic principle to living in general. I'm not willing to abandon it, and science so easily. Does nothing have limits to what it can cause (how is this determined)?
This question is the domain of particle physics. Virtual particles exist; the Casmir effect was a prediction of them:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect
My point to Steve is that one gets into an infinite regress if one says that something causes the existence of virtual particles. Rather, virtual particles simply happen because they can happen as described by the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. They are not caused by anything.
Ok... what I know of the Casmir experiment, is that it requires to plates in a vacuum (not nothing). My question is still how do we determine that nothing is the cause (or how can you even test that).
As to an infinite regress, I agree, that is a problem with an infinite series of cause and effects. I don't see where it is required however; that it either stop at virtual particles or be an infinite regress. How did you come to this conclusion? Which part of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle do you apply, to get virtual particles poofing into existence from nothing. I need reasons to abandon the principle of causality, which I think it properly basic.
(July 20, 2017 at 2:43 pm)Jehanne Wrote:(July 20, 2017 at 2:29 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: Do you have a specific objection to something I had said or a certain principle, that you wish to express?
According to your criteria, one could believe anything.
No I don't believe that.... and I also don't think that you can dismiss anything based on personal incredulity or hyper skepticism.
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. - Alexander Vilenkin
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire. - Martin Luther
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire. - Martin Luther
