(July 28, 2017 at 7:13 am)SteveII Wrote: 1. I apologize. You said there is no philosophical basis for classifying something as extraordinary--I agree. You said "we demand it because we want to draw good conclusions to make good decisions". I took both of these statements together to mean that the demand for extraordinary evidence is subjective. Correct me if I misunderstood.
90% of the world does not believe in an argument or have arrived at a conclusion based on evidence. I am saying 90% of the world intuitively believes in the supernatural (and this has been true throughout the ages). I think the number is far far higher because I think most are born that way. My point was then that without the imposition of a natualistic worldview, most people don't demand extraordinary evidence -- just ordinary evidence.
2. I apologize again. On just about every page of this thread, someone has told me there is no evidence. It is a stupid statement and I thought you were saying the same. The list I gave was categories of evidence that are available to examine and how they support each other. I am certainly not going to fill up 30 more pages fleshing each one out. If you have a specific question, I would be happy to attempt an answer.
3. No, they are dead and I was not there. I am taking the stance that there is not one shred of evidence of mass deceit or conspiracy in the NT. 'Goat herders' is not only inaccurate, but a disingenuous attempt strengthen your argument--the technical term--ad hominem.
1a. The demand for any evidence, ever, at all, is subjective if you phrase it that way. Decision making is inherently subjective and based on our best judgement. I mean, philosophy is solidly in the humanities, so the phrase this discussion is about requires that a human is ultimately making the decision. That really has nothing to do with whether the phrase is valuable. It's like saying that $200 is a bad deal for a t-shirt: ultimately subjective, but still quite true. If you're trying to convince me to buy a $200 t-shirt, you're going to need to do a lot more than convince me that technically it's my choice.
1b. 'I am saying 90% of the world intuitively believes in the supernatural'
Because the world is freaking complicated, so people throughout the ages have tried to explain phenomenon that they don't understand with superstition. Science does the job of explaining this kind of thing so much better that the mythical guesswork that society has had to use before we understood the world around us.
' I think the number is far far higher because I think most are born that way.'
No no no. Are most born that way or are we raised that way? The most prevalent example I can think of is my mother: she was born into a highly catholic family and raised under the catholic ideology. She was most definitely born an atheist, but it took her decades to begin thinking about the world because her critical thinking was so stifled by the irrationality she was raised under. This forum is a testament to the number of people like this. Where are you getting this assertion that babies are born religious, as opposed to indoctrinated from the time they open their eyes?
2. I've never seen any of this 'available evidence'. Maybe it's because I'm new here but you guys hash this out frequently? For a specific question: I come from a background in the sciences. If you're going to convince me, I'm going to need some actual empirical evidence that there is a god that can be tested and replicated. Saying that it is written or believed somewhere is not proof of anything. If I believed everything that has been written or believed by millions, I'd believe in dozens of contradictory religions, cults, and conspiracies.
3. If not goat herders, who?
