Emotions are intrinsically good and bad

[Edwardo Piet]

I do not agree that there are positive and negative experiences through our thoughts alone.

I don't think that thoughts alone are sufficent either. Positive and negative experiences themselves are sufficent. And they are in thought-form in the sense that they are experienced as conscious states (so they are thought-stuff in that sense).

Or basically... I don't think that thoughts alone are sufficient but I do think positive or negative feeling alone is sufficient. I think 'feeling' is a lot broader than specific emotions. I think there are positive and negative feelings that aren't categorized into specific emotions.

And a positive feeling that is more intense and lasts longer is definitely superior to another positive feeling that is less intense and lasts less long.... but it's not clear whether 'excitement' is superior to 'relaxation'. Or 'bliss' is superior to 'ecstasy'.

 

I think it can only be our emotions that are the real positive and negative experiences we can have.

But positive and negative experience is a lot broader than the positive and negative experiences we've labelled as specific emotions.

 Just because you believe that your life has good value during an emotional state such as a state of complete misery does not mean that you are experiencing any real good value.

That's wrong if you believe that a positive emotion is intrinsic goodness. Because if you truly believe that something has good value then you will experience that belief as a positive emotion (or at least as a positive feeling that there isn't a label for. But then would you discount it even though it feels good just because it doesn't have a name you call an 'emotion'?). You can't believe you are experiencing good value and not feel it unless good value means something more to you than a positive emotion.

 There would be no positive experience there and, thus, no real good value in your life.  This would have to mean that our positive emotions really are the only way we can truly judge good value in our lives.

I don't know why you say 'judge' because emotions don't make judgements. If emotions are intrisically good then they don't need to make judgements about what is good as they are already themselves good. If you have positive emotions then it's utterly pointless to figure out what's good because you already have it.

 

We could think of a certain decision being wise (good) such as choosing a longer duration of positive emotions over a single and momentary intense positive emotion, but if such a decision was thought of as being good during a moment where we had no positive emotions, then that would not be any real good value in our lives. It wouldn't be any real judged good value.  Therefore, our thoughts alone would not be positive or negative.  They would just be certain types of thoughts that allow us to make certain choices and feel certain emotions.

On the contrary... if positive emotions are intrinsically good and we are experiencing them then we don't have to bother to be wise or make good decisions at all. We don't have to make good judgments at all and positive emotions certainly not only can't but don't need to make good judgments or any judgments... as once positive emotions are present in a person that person has already achieved intrinsic goodness so no more effort or action is necessary.

If you believed that your life was good and beautiful during a moment where you had no positive emotions, then that would not be any real good value and beauty in your life just as how that would not be any real red for a blind person who cannot visualize colors.

It works the other way around too though, that's what you're missing here. If you don't believe your life is good and beautiful then you aren't feeling any positive emotions.

Sure, you definitely don't have to label your life as good and beautiful. But if what is good and beautiful is by definition the experience of positive emotions then if your life is not good and beautiful then you are not experiencing positive emotions. And it's not possible to be deluded about it because the very feeling of truly believing your life is good and beautiful is itself experienced as positive emotions (because you've already defined them as exactly the same thing). Whether you call that belief in truly believing your life is good and beautiful or not. Because you already believe that the very feeling of life being good and beautiful is itself good and beauty itself. Because positive feeling alone is goodness (Unless, again, you really only judge a positive feeling to be positive if you can label it or categorize it as a specific 'emotion'. Which I think is silly because if you have a positive feeling or experience but you are unable to categorize it into a specific emotion... that doesn't matter as long as you are experiencing something positive).

"Positive feeling is intrinsic goodness" and "positive experientiality is intrinsic goodness" are both definitely more accurate and relevantly comprehensive positions than "positive emotions are intrinsic goodness".

 

Sure, the blind person is thinking of the color red.  But it's not any real red in this blind person's life.

If the thought the blind person is experiencing is truly an experience of red then it is indeed real red or it isn't true red.

Of course this is only possible if the blind person had vision in the past and is experiencing a memory of real red that the blind person has seen in the past before they lost their eyesight.

And it's irrelevant that that's only a memory and 'not really physically happening now' as positive and negative emotions can be felt in memories just as much as in present physical reality.

I still haven't found the part where you finally make an admission that positive emotions themselves cannot entail the conclusion that duration is more important than intensity.