speedyj1992 Wrote:Mister Agenda Wrote:I bolded the parts of your analogy that illustrate its ineptness. The Doctor bases his conclusions, on what he knows, not on appearances. That's the opposite of what you're doing. That chance can't account for complexity is not only an unsupported assertion it's contrary to observation. Chaos is more complex than order, and includes order. Chaos without any order would itself be a form of order that would have to be explained by an outside factor (chaos without any order is too consistent to be completely chaotic).
Life is based on organic chemistry not junk, and organic molecules behave very differently from pieces of junk. One of their defining characteristics is the capacity to spontaneously form complex polymers under certain conditions readily found in nature.
Why were you an atheist, anyway? I'd wager you didn't think your way into that position.
Are you saying you don't think I'd thought my way into atheism or theism? Because I've thought my way in and out of both, and what originally got me away from religion was actually a big lack of understanding the problems of evil and why God doesn't work in certain ways.
Also, just pointing out that you actually helped to prove my point about how organic and inorganic chemistry are very different from each other. My first question to you is if you believe whether organic life emerged from inorganic matter OR whether you believe it was present from the beginning of the universe - because the first is not possible based on current research and the second is actually not that far from the idea of God existing from the beginning. Second question, if chaos and order have to exist together, where did the order come from?
So clearly, you weren't an atheist for the same reason most atheists on this forum are: a position that belief should be proportionate to the evidence in its favor. The barbarity carried out by or directed by God in the Old Testament cured me of being a Christian, but it didn't make me an atheist. Skepticism did, and by the time I stopped believing in God, I had already stopped believing in alien visitation, ancient astronauts, Bigfoot, ESP, ghosts, and the Loch Ness monster.
You didn't make a point about how organic and inorganic chemistry are very different from each other. The main difference is that the molecules involved in organic chemistry contain carbon atoms, while those in inorganic chemistry don't. Carbon forms strong attachments and can form a wide variety of combinations that are conducive to forming complex molecules.
To answer your first question, organic life did not arise from inorganic matter. It arose from organic matter. See organic chemistry above. Life as we know it would have been impossible in the early stages of the universe. It was impossible in the earliest stages of the earth's formation, as well. Your assessment of what current research finds impossible is at odds with the opinion of the people actually doing the research, and as I've noted before, you don't seem to have a firm grasp on what's not possible. Hint: improbable and impossible are not synonyms.
As to your second question, as has been already explained by myself and others, chaos necessarily has an orderly component. The existence of order is not the big mystery that you seem to think it is. As to the prevalence of order that may be beyond what would be expected if the universe were solely a chaotic system; gravity accounts for almost all of it. Gravity brings order to the universe, but it's an impersonal force, not a god or God.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.