Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: August 15, 2026, 6:28 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Free Will is a sign if God's inescapable weakness
#14
RE: Free Will is a sign if God's inescapable weakness
(November 20, 2017 at 2:03 pm)Hammy Wrote: I'm actually of the opinion that belief in contra-causal free will overall causes more hatred and revenge fuelled violence and killing than the most extreme behavior of all religions combined.

Unless you count the fact that it may have itself came from religion. I think it might not have done though,  actually I think in all likelihood it predates religion by a long way. When we don't know the true causes of human behavior and we're aware of our own general abilities it's only natural to assume that we are self-causing agents. It's just a lack of analysis. Another example of our so-called "common sense" failing us.
IDK.  Most of the faiths that predate the abrahamic one express a pronounced sense of fatalism, and at the dawn of the abrahamic faith they don't appear to have believed that they had free will either.  We can;t really know what people thought about the subject before these traditions are written down, but by their earliest writings..if people -did- believe in free will in some prehistoric past they'd since moved away from it and began the theological spiral into nonsense we see today.   

Quote:And it may seem benign at first, but it's used to justify not only hatred as a whole but also the most grotesquely barbaric behavior. It also justifies arrogance. When people are full of themselves it's often because they take ultimate credit when no ultimate credit is due. The dunning kruger effect, etc. We credit both ourselves and others far too much, rather than focusing on important things like deterring and mitigating harm.
Here again I think it's more a disparity between systematic ideology and common sense appraisals or even our own experience.  It's not uncommon to hear people exclaim that they (or the other person) just couldn't help themselves.  Or for us to express vast bewilderment at why we would do the ridiculous shit we do.  It very much seems like free will is a tool for codification more than an observation on the state of our decisions...and I think it has an effect in societies or people who've been raised to accept it of granting it more credence than we naturally might. We might have had a less fanciful view of ourselves, at one point..or we may not even have had thoughts about it, it being a non-cognitive.

Long lists of taboos are a more direct approach to mitigating harm than assigning responsibility. We were coming up with taboos long before we thought that everyone was somehow directly responsible for their every freely made choice. It seems as though we weren;t counting on people to freely make the right choice..but to remove them from situations, and remove situations from our societies. Can't do the bad thing if you have no opportunity.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply



Messages In This Thread
RE: Free Will is a sign if God's inescapable weakness - by The Grand Nudger - November 20, 2017 at 2:15 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  A thing about religious (and other) people and the illusion of free will ShinyCrystals 268 79065 June 23, 2025 at 10:23 pm
Last Post: awty
  Free Will Theodicy FlatAssembler 64 14946 July 13, 2023 at 2:15 pm
Last Post: Bucky Ball
  On the lunacy of free will slartibartfast 152 31459 October 20, 2021 at 12:50 am
Last Post: Oldandeasilyconfused
  Free gift. Chad32 32 10216 May 8, 2018 at 3:26 pm
Last Post: Astreja
  The Problem of Evil combined with the problem of Free Will Aroura 163 75934 June 5, 2017 at 8:54 am
Last Post: Drich
  Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist? AceBoogie 252 78333 January 9, 2017 at 8:32 pm
Last Post: Edwardo Piet
  If free will was not real Paraselene 508 131711 August 22, 2016 at 2:38 am
Last Post: Gemini
  Hypothetically, science proves free will isn't real henryp 95 31411 July 12, 2016 at 7:00 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Did God Give Us Free Will? Shuffle 8 4593 August 4, 2015 at 12:29 am
Last Post: Paraselene
  why doesn't your deity protect my free will? ReptilianPeon 20 8309 July 8, 2015 at 3:21 am
Last Post: Longhorn



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)