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Religion stifles Moral Evolution
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution
(December 1, 2017 at 7:53 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:
(December 1, 2017 at 6:57 pm)SteveII Wrote: 'Abandon' isn't the right word. The moral laws of the OT were summarized/encapsulated in the NT message/instructions and following them would ensure (and in some cases exceed) satisfying the OT prescriptions. The other civil and dietary laws were for another people in another context.

Well, let me put it to you in the form of a hypothetical.  Let's suppose that all persons all over the world converted to Christianity.  In that circumstance are we to ignore the strictures of the old testament?  If so, are we to abandon the institution of law altogether?  If not, what are we supposed to use as the basis of our formulations about law?   Jesus said that loving thy God with your all, and loving thy neighbor as one loves themselves and that "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”  It seems rather strange that Jesus is here justifying the law if he is supposed to have abolished it.  Regardless, are we to simply punt on issues such as abortion, or are we to in some sense attempt to divine the appropriate legal guide from these two commandments, ignoring altogether what the old testament says?  In short, would the new testament replace law in this brave new world?  From where would our laws come?

I did not say Jesus came to abolish the law? Jesus' only instruction on how we should act was definitely not limited to his answer for what the greatest commandment was. In effect, he brought a stricter law because now it mattered what was on the inside. It did not contradict the moral law from the OT and it did not set it aside. That is why I say that morality for a Christian comes from the NT. 

Murder is not wrong simply because it is listed as the sixth commandment. Woven through nearly all doctrine is the value that God places on human life. There is no logical , theological, nor scientific reason to not extend that concept to an unborn child.

(December 1, 2017 at 9:17 pm)Cecelia Wrote:
(December 1, 2017 at 7:27 pm)SteveII Wrote: If a religion teaches something is wrong, then the adherents of that religion are by definition, not bigoted or hateful for adopting it. They could be, but not necessarily so. 

The OT is not a stricter form of morality--not at all. Read Matthew 5.

Give me an example how Christianity, based on the NT (and not some other agenda) has "eventually [caught] up on some of the issues". It's nice to assert these things in support of your conclusion, but they are hard to refute when they are so vague.

Nope, they are by definition bigoted and hateful.  You don't get to use your religion as a 'get out of bigotry free' card.  Not at all.

Then you are simply changing the definition of 'bigot' and 'hateful'. Can't argue with someone who has their own definitions for words.

Quote:Let's see... places where Christianity eventually caught up.

Slavery for starters.  The NT nor the OT outlaws it.  In fact Christianity was often used to defend the institution of Slavery during the Civil War.  These days you'll find only a few Christians (and usually they're bigots themselves) who espouse that Slavery was good and moral.  Jesus never once said anything like "Release your slaves!" 

Jesus did not come to rail against the laws of the day (the very powerful Roman empire). Slavery in that day was not a race thing. It was an economic issue. He address 'heart' issues. It is very hard to say that "Love your neighbor as yourself" can be construed to support slavery in any way. If people did use 'Christianity' to defend chattel, racial slavery, it would be a simple thing indeed to knock that argument down. It was Christians who were instrumental in outlawing it first in the British Empire and then in the US. 

Quote:Divorce.  The Catholics still have problems with it (though much less than they used to) but other Christians... woo boy.  They're perfectly okay with divorce these days.  Which is why their champion right now is an orange faced buffoon who has been married 3 times. 

Jesus was clear on divorce. It is certainly not an example of "moral evolution" because there is nothing new or different in science or society that would justify an evolved concept of it. 

Quote:The view on women, though only recently, has changed too. 

FINALLY. Something with merit! I don't have time right now to research and write. I will get back to this.
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Messages In This Thread
Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Cecelia - December 1, 2017 at 12:21 am
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by The Grand Nudger - December 1, 2017 at 12:25 am
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Catholic_Lady - December 1, 2017 at 8:13 am
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Brian37 - December 1, 2017 at 9:49 am
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Joods - December 1, 2017 at 8:23 am
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Neo-Scholastic - December 1, 2017 at 1:41 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Joods - December 1, 2017 at 1:53 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Aroura - December 1, 2017 at 8:34 am
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Catholic_Lady - December 1, 2017 at 8:49 am
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Whateverist - December 1, 2017 at 9:34 am
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Joods - December 1, 2017 at 10:47 am
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Aroura - December 1, 2017 at 11:26 am
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Catholic_Lady - December 1, 2017 at 12:39 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Brian37 - December 1, 2017 at 12:50 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Catholic_Lady - December 1, 2017 at 12:58 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Brian37 - December 1, 2017 at 1:24 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Succubus - December 1, 2017 at 6:32 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Catholic_Lady - December 1, 2017 at 7:02 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by The Grand Nudger - December 1, 2017 at 9:21 am
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Catholic_Lady - December 1, 2017 at 9:43 am
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by drfuzzy - December 1, 2017 at 11:09 am
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Whateverist - December 1, 2017 at 11:39 am
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Aroura - December 1, 2017 at 11:49 am
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Whateverist - December 1, 2017 at 3:04 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Brian37 - December 1, 2017 at 11:52 am
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Minimalist - December 1, 2017 at 11:43 am
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by The Grand Nudger - December 1, 2017 at 11:44 am
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by vorlon13 - December 1, 2017 at 12:22 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Minimalist - December 1, 2017 at 12:53 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Catholic_Lady - December 1, 2017 at 12:56 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Brian37 - December 1, 2017 at 1:12 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by vorlon13 - December 1, 2017 at 1:39 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Minimalist - December 1, 2017 at 6:04 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by The Grand Nudger - December 1, 2017 at 12:57 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by brewer - December 1, 2017 at 1:17 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Aroura - December 1, 2017 at 1:18 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Catholic_Lady - December 1, 2017 at 1:49 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Neo-Scholastic - December 1, 2017 at 2:04 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by brewer - December 1, 2017 at 3:25 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Brian37 - December 1, 2017 at 3:28 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Anomalocaris - December 1, 2017 at 6:53 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Aroura - December 1, 2017 at 2:35 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Cod - December 1, 2017 at 3:58 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Succubus - December 1, 2017 at 6:46 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Catholic_Lady - December 1, 2017 at 6:51 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Succubus - December 1, 2017 at 7:15 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Succubus - December 1, 2017 at 7:16 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Angrboda - December 1, 2017 at 7:35 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Catholic_Lady - December 1, 2017 at 7:39 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Ravenshire - December 1, 2017 at 9:09 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Catholic_Lady - December 1, 2017 at 9:15 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by SteveII - December 1, 2017 at 1:55 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Joods - December 1, 2017 at 2:05 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Brian37 - December 1, 2017 at 2:14 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by LadyForCamus - December 1, 2017 at 3:41 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by SteveII - December 1, 2017 at 4:17 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Astreja - December 1, 2017 at 4:29 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by brewer - December 1, 2017 at 7:41 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by The Grand Nudger - December 1, 2017 at 2:53 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by The Grand Nudger - December 1, 2017 at 3:13 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by henryp - December 1, 2017 at 3:22 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Brian37 - December 1, 2017 at 3:24 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by The Grand Nudger - December 1, 2017 at 3:31 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by The Grand Nudger - December 1, 2017 at 4:27 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Cod - December 1, 2017 at 4:29 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by LadyForCamus - December 1, 2017 at 4:38 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by SteveII - December 1, 2017 at 5:02 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Angrboda - December 1, 2017 at 5:38 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Joods - December 1, 2017 at 5:44 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by SteveII - December 1, 2017 at 6:57 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Angrboda - December 1, 2017 at 7:53 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by SteveII - December 2, 2017 at 10:18 am
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Angrboda - December 2, 2017 at 10:43 am
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by SteveII - December 2, 2017 at 7:35 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by LadyForCamus - December 1, 2017 at 6:11 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by The Grand Nudger - December 1, 2017 at 4:40 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by The Grand Nudger - December 1, 2017 at 5:06 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by SteveII - December 1, 2017 at 5:15 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Cod - December 1, 2017 at 5:10 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by The Grand Nudger - December 1, 2017 at 5:21 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by SteveII - December 1, 2017 at 7:16 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by The Grand Nudger - December 1, 2017 at 5:46 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Cecelia - December 1, 2017 at 5:49 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by SteveII - December 1, 2017 at 7:27 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Cecelia - December 1, 2017 at 9:17 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Succubus - December 1, 2017 at 7:33 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by The Grand Nudger - December 1, 2017 at 6:16 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by LadyForCamus - December 1, 2017 at 6:21 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by vorlon13 - December 1, 2017 at 6:32 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by The Grand Nudger - December 1, 2017 at 6:47 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by vorlon13 - December 1, 2017 at 6:53 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by The Grand Nudger - December 1, 2017 at 6:59 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Joods - December 1, 2017 at 7:00 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by SteveII - December 1, 2017 at 7:31 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by The Grand Nudger - December 1, 2017 at 7:04 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by The Grand Nudger - December 1, 2017 at 7:29 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by SteveII - December 1, 2017 at 7:44 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by The Grand Nudger - December 1, 2017 at 7:46 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Minimalist - December 1, 2017 at 8:06 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by MysticKnight - December 1, 2017 at 8:07 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Minimalist - December 1, 2017 at 9:31 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by The Grand Nudger - December 1, 2017 at 8:17 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by MysticKnight - December 1, 2017 at 9:33 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Astreja - December 2, 2017 at 9:22 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Neo-Scholastic - December 4, 2017 at 2:35 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by Astreja - December 4, 2017 at 2:37 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by The Grand Nudger - December 1, 2017 at 9:48 pm
RE: Religion stifles Moral Evolution - by drfuzzy - December 4, 2017 at 11:14 am

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