(December 2, 2017 at 10:43 am)Jörmungandr Wrote:(December 2, 2017 at 10:18 am)SteveII Wrote: I did not say Jesus came to abolish the law? Jesus' only instruction on how we should act was definitely not limited to his answer for what the greatest commandment was. In effect, he brought a stricter law because now it mattered what was on the inside. It did not contradict the moral law from the OT and it did not set it aside. That is why I say that morality for a Christian comes from the NT.
So, OT law or no OT law? You seem to be waffling on this. At the very least, your position is unclear. Perhaps this is because it is not clearly defined.
(December 2, 2017 at 10:18 am)SteveII Wrote: Murder is not wrong simply because it is listed as the sixth commandment. Woven through nearly all doctrine is the value that God places on human life. There is no logical , theological, nor scientific reason to not extend that concept to an unborn child.
22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall
be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, 24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
Exodus 21:22-25, KJV
If things are as you say, then why is the penalty for this not death?
I think the misunderstanding in my position is you don't know what I mean when I say moral law of the OT. I mean things like the 10 commandments, things that God says are an abomination, etc. Take your examples, they are IF/THEN statements. These are examples of civil laws for a theocracy. While there might be something to glean from them, they are not instructions of general morality.
So, to answer your specific question, the penalty may have been death to an ancient Jew. The NT does not prescribe any guidance at all on civil law. The entire NT message, as it relates to morality, is about changing the heart.