(December 14, 2017 at 7:17 pm)skydivephil Wrote: Its often said by theists when debating the fine tuning argument , there is no evidence for a multiverse.I have used the fine-tuning argument before, but now I see it as evidence for an evolutionary process... in a sense like a multiverse. That is because we use algorithmic learning which mimics evolutionary biology to arrive at solutions which seem far too complex to be solved in a straightforward manner (which would imply supernatural intelligence).
(December 26, 2017 at 9:17 pm)Astreja Wrote: I am strongly of the opinion that my current self terminates forever at the moment of physical death, with no aspect of my personality surviving.I hope you don't mind my asking, but I'm curious... Do you see yourself as a flash of consciousness between two eternal darknesses? If so, then how do you see yourself really existing at all?
Similar pondering must have prompted Nietzsche's "eternal return" argument https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_...nal_return
If something happens by chance in an infinite chain of causality, it must happen infinite times. Anything that happens by chance, cannot happen only once.
How do you reconcile this in your belief? Have we had this conversation infinite numbers of times previously and are destined to discuss it infinitely more? Not only that, but in every possible form also for an infinite number of times?
If causality is not infinite, then it must have a beginning and therefore causeless, which doesn't make any sense. How do we escape the ridiculous?
St. Augustine is no help; merely calling upon god for “the ridiculousness of the Logos dying on the cross like an acrobat in an interminable sequence of performances.” In other words, god wouldn't care for the idea that christ would need to be sacrificed an infinite number of times; therefore, it's false. He had the advantage of assuming a creator, but how are atheists to handle this proposition?
(December 31, 2017 at 10:47 pm)snowtracks Wrote: The reason for people to SAY there is no God is because of natural pride and self-sufficiency.Yes, but isn't it also pride to chose eternal life? "Nothing can be more egotistical than true repentance." - Alan Watts.
Ephesians 2:9 Not of works; lest any man should boast.
If there is nothing you can do to be saved, then is "choosing" something you do? If you choose correctly, then you can brag about it, so Ep 2:9 comes into play and it appears that, yes, choosing is a work. How can anyone, therefore, be saved?
Paul states clearly that it's a gift and there is no bragging about something you had nothing to do with. You could not have made a choice to receive that gift because then you'd feel entitled to drag your large ego through the Gates while shoving St Peter aside in haste. "Make way! I made the right choices and therefore I deserve to enter." Jesus even tells of such occurrence Matt 7:22...
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Paul says, "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." That's as opposed to "proudly proclaiming".
You may consider whether you've realized the true meaning of faith and humility. Faith isn't clinging to religion and religion and humility are antipodal.
If the atheist community is searching for a reason to push against religion, they may add to the toolbox the assertion that religion defeats its own purpose and may subject its adherents to the very destruction they're fleeing.
