New Evidence for Multiverse from Planck Scientist

[Agnosty]

I have used the fine-tuning argument before, but now I see it as evidence for an evolutionary process... in a sense like a multiverse.  That is because we use algorithmic learning which mimics evolutionary biology to arrive at solutions which seem far too complex to be solved in a straightforward manner (which would imply supernatural intelligence).

I wonder if you envision a feedback loop of some kind (analogous to survival in the evolution of life) for the eternally changing landscape of the cosmos?  If so, what do you imagine the criteria to be?

To my mind, for us to entertain such questions, would be like a bacterium in the gut of a flea living on the back of parasite within the gill slit of a vast dragon wondering what the dragon is up to today.  (So pointless and beyond us.)

I think you've done a good job peering in my head.

Yes, feedback loop:







Good read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybernetics

And I do picture it as a bacterium etc as you said.

what do you imagine the criteria to be?

I'm not clear on exactly what you're asking, but I'll take a stab by redefining some words:

Perception - the interception of information or simply being in the path of the information.
Awareness - the interception of the information that information was intercepted (perception of perception)
Consciousness - the interception of the information that the information of the interception of information was intercepted. (perception of awareness)

Is there a 4th level?  Perception of consciousness?  Does that produce the unique "point of view"?  I have more questions than answers.

But yes, feedback loop.  Alan Watts talked much about feedback using examples such as singing in the bathtub (as opposed to open-air).

I hope you don't mind my asking, but I'm curious... Do you see yourself as a flash of consciousness between two eternal darknesses?  If so, then how do you see yourself really existing at all?

Not addressed to me but that doesn't mean I don't have a response.

 
By all means, jump in whenever you want.  You challenge me and I appreciate that.

I'm pretty sure there will be no darkness when I blink out

I suppose we can't be conscious of nothing, so the only experience we could possibly have is the experience when we were born.

as there will be plenty more me's to carry on the light.  It will just be me's with a different starting point and biography.

Well, the eternal return argument insists you will appear exactly as you are now.  It won't be slightly different, but exactly the same. (Of course, there will be versions that are slightly different as well as versions that are vastly different.) 

I personally don't worry about before or after.  Life is a wonderful opportunity, no matter the duration of the ride.  

Puzzles are fun; that's all

Similar pondering must have prompted Nietzsche's "eternal return" argument https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_...nal_return

If something happens by chance in an infinite chain of causality, it must happen infinite times.  Anything that happens by chance, cannot happen only once.

How do you reconcile this in your belief?  Have we had this conversation infinite numbers of times previously and are destined to discuss it infinitely more?  Not only that, but in every possible form also for an infinite number of times?

If causality is not infinite, then it must have a beginning and therefore causeless, which doesn't make any sense.  How do we escape the ridiculous?

Recognize a wrong turn and avoid it.  Fortunately the continuation of our time of light is not conditional upon answering every fuzzy headed riddle that comes our way.  Enjoy riddles?  Then go for it but recognize that nothing at all rides on it.

Agreed.  Well, wait... what about the feedback loop?  I am a product of the universe (what there is), but if I change something....

Yes, but isn't it also pride to chose eternal life?  "Nothing can be more egotistical than true repentance." - Alan Watts.

Ephesians 2:9 Not of works; lest any man should boast.

If there is nothing you can do to be saved, then is "choosing" something you do?  If you choose correctly, then you can brag about it, so Ep 2:9 comes into play and it appears that, yes, choosing is a work.  How can anyone, therefore, be saved?

Paul states clearly that it's a gift and there is no bragging about something you had nothing to do with.  You could not have made a choice to receive that gift because then you'd feel entitled to drag your large ego through the Gates while shoving St Peter aside in haste.  "Make way!  I made the right choices and therefore I deserve to enter."  Jesus even tells of such occurrence Matt 7:22...

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?  23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Paul says, "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."  That's as opposed to "proudly proclaiming".

You may consider whether you've realized the true meaning of faith and humility.  Faith isn't clinging to religion and religion and humility are antipodal.

If the atheist community is searching for a reason to push against religion, they may add to the toolbox the assertion that religion defeats its own purpose and may subject its adherents to the very destruction they're fleeing.

Well said.

Thanks!