Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: August 10, 2026, 4:38 pm

Poll: Were you consistent concerning the number of lives you saved?
This poll is closed.
I was consistent: Same # of people lived/died in both experiments.
17.65%
3 17.65%
I was inconsistent: 5 died in one experiment, 1 died in the other.
82.35%
14 82.35%
Total 17 vote(s) 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics
#87
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics
(January 24, 2018 at 7:22 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Since, in context here we may not discussing an inconsistency of a system, as your poll suggests, but a possible misapplication of an unsuitable system to a particular portion of any given hypothetical.  

Absolutely. I expected most to be inconsistent. My poll may have given the impression that inconsistency is to be avoided. This was not my intention. The inconsistency is to be examined. This inconsistency itself is a huge question mark. Not only does it bring consequentialism into question, but (in a more limited way) all of ethical monism. Morality obviously isn't a numbers game, but numbers have a place in it, and they deserve due consideration. To ignore utilitarianism as important to ethics is to miss the point that there is a precise difference between genocide and the murder of a single person.

We are morally blind if we ignore consequentialism. Let's examine two moral universes, identical in every way except: a murder occurs in the streets of New York in universe A -- In universe B, the murder in New York doesn't happen, but a genocide of 10,000 people occurs elsewhere. A moral theorist who pronounces both universes equally good is blind. A utilitarian is not blind in this regard and would correctly endorse moral actions which favor universe A over universe B. In other words, he would pull the trolley switch without blinking, and we need that in ethics. Otherwise we are morally blind. But (as we have figured out upon closer inspection) the numbers game is insufficient.

Virtue ethics is a good counterbalance. If any theory is not a numbers game, it's virtue ethics. It's not even a "rules" game. It's obvious to see how it utterly fails as a monistic theory though. In a world populated entirely by Adolf Hitlers, a virtue ethicist would be forced to choose Hitler as a moral exemplar. Utilitarianism doesn't suffer from this constraint, and would be of service to a world of Hitlers in a way virtue ethics never could. Taken as a monistic theory to be implemented all by itself, virtue ethics fails hard. But used in conjunction with other theories in pluralism, it bolsters all the others.


Quote:How would you prioritize, if you were looking to make suggestions?

Yeah that's the problem with prioritizing them. As soon as you prioritize one over another you ALSO prioritize its weaknesses. If there were a way to address a theory's weakness as they came up, you could just cook that into the monistic theory. I like your idea better than the heuristic.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by vulcanlogician - January 24, 2018 at 11:22 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Athene - January 24, 2018 at 11:34 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by vorlon13 - January 24, 2018 at 11:35 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by vulcanlogician - January 24, 2018 at 11:38 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by vorlon13 - January 26, 2018 at 9:46 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Longhorn - January 24, 2018 at 11:39 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by vulcanlogician - January 24, 2018 at 11:43 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Longhorn - January 24, 2018 at 11:47 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by paulpablo - January 24, 2018 at 11:46 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Magilla - January 26, 2018 at 10:35 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Athene - January 24, 2018 at 12:08 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Aegon - January 24, 2018 at 12:22 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by I_am_not_mafia - January 24, 2018 at 12:39 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Catholic_Lady - January 24, 2018 at 12:56 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SteveII - January 24, 2018 at 12:56 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Catholic_Lady - January 24, 2018 at 12:57 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by LastPoet - January 24, 2018 at 2:43 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SteveII - January 24, 2018 at 3:43 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SaStrike - January 24, 2018 at 6:36 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SaStrike - January 24, 2018 at 7:03 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Catholic_Lady - January 24, 2018 at 7:24 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SaStrike - January 24, 2018 at 7:36 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Catholic_Lady - January 24, 2018 at 11:49 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Athene - January 24, 2018 at 10:34 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SaStrike - January 24, 2018 at 6:26 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by vorlon13 - January 24, 2018 at 12:57 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by brewer - January 24, 2018 at 1:20 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Rev. Rye - January 24, 2018 at 11:16 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Catholic_Lady - January 24, 2018 at 1:27 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Catholic_Lady - January 24, 2018 at 1:52 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Aegon - January 24, 2018 at 1:48 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Longhorn - January 24, 2018 at 2:13 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by RoadRunner79 - January 24, 2018 at 3:03 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Athene - January 24, 2018 at 3:44 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by paulpablo - January 24, 2018 at 4:25 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by bennyboy - January 24, 2018 at 5:57 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SaStrike - January 24, 2018 at 6:07 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by vulcanlogician - January 25, 2018 at 11:43 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Haipule - January 24, 2018 at 9:17 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Cinjin - January 24, 2018 at 10:09 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Haipule - January 24, 2018 at 10:24 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by brewer - January 24, 2018 at 10:39 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Athene - January 24, 2018 at 10:45 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by chimp3 - January 24, 2018 at 10:45 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by chimp3 - January 24, 2018 at 10:52 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by bennyboy - January 24, 2018 at 11:25 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by bennyboy - January 25, 2018 at 12:27 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by chimp3 - January 24, 2018 at 11:44 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by chimp3 - January 25, 2018 at 12:09 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by DLJ - January 25, 2018 at 12:05 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by DodosAreDead - January 25, 2018 at 12:34 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Whateverist - January 25, 2018 at 2:49 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by bennyboy - January 25, 2018 at 3:42 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by bennyboy - January 25, 2018 at 9:03 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by bennyboy - January 25, 2018 at 9:41 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by DLJ - January 25, 2018 at 4:10 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by shadow - January 25, 2018 at 10:10 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Angrboda - January 25, 2018 at 10:29 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by polymath257 - January 25, 2018 at 11:50 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by vulcanlogician - January 25, 2018 at 11:59 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by polymath257 - January 25, 2018 at 12:29 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by vulcanlogician - January 25, 2018 at 12:45 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by polymath257 - January 25, 2018 at 1:35 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by shadow - January 25, 2018 at 7:51 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by bennyboy - January 25, 2018 at 8:58 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by polymath257 - January 25, 2018 at 1:59 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SteveII - January 26, 2018 at 11:34 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SteveII - January 28, 2018 at 2:53 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Grandizer - January 28, 2018 at 4:14 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Whateverist - January 26, 2018 at 12:28 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by vulcanlogician - January 26, 2018 at 12:39 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Whateverist - January 26, 2018 at 1:03 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by polymath257 - January 26, 2018 at 9:59 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Whateverist - January 26, 2018 at 12:32 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SaStrike - January 26, 2018 at 6:40 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SteveII - January 27, 2018 at 12:18 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SaStrike - January 27, 2018 at 1:17 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SteveII - January 27, 2018 at 2:34 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SaStrike - January 27, 2018 at 3:29 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SteveII - January 27, 2018 at 8:04 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Whateverist - January 28, 2018 at 3:42 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by DLJ - January 27, 2018 at 12:06 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SteveII - January 28, 2018 at 9:54 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by DLJ - January 28, 2018 at 11:32 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by bennyboy - January 28, 2018 at 8:40 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Amarok - January 28, 2018 at 7:43 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by bennyboy - January 30, 2018 at 5:29 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SaStrike - January 30, 2018 at 6:00 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SaStrike - January 30, 2018 at 6:25 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by bennyboy - January 30, 2018 at 6:28 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SaStrike - January 30, 2018 at 6:39 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by bennyboy - January 30, 2018 at 11:01 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Sal - January 30, 2018 at 9:20 am

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Atheism and Ethics Lucian 262 64993 August 4, 2024 at 9:51 am
Last Post: Disagreeable
  Ethics of Neutrality John 6IX Breezy 16 5096 November 20, 2023 at 8:40 am
Last Post: Gawdzilla Sama
  Ethics of Fashion John 6IX Breezy 60 14654 August 9, 2022 at 3:11 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  [Serious] Ethics Disagreeable 44 12012 March 23, 2022 at 7:09 pm
Last Post: deepend
  Machine Intelligence and Human Ethics BrianSoddingBoru4 24 6314 May 28, 2019 at 1:23 pm
Last Post: Anomalocaris
  What is the point of multiple types of ethics? Macoleco 12 3259 October 2, 2018 at 12:35 pm
Last Post: robvalue
  (LONG) "I Don't Know" as a Good Answer in Ethics vulcanlogician 69 22471 November 27, 2017 at 1:10 am
Last Post: vulcanlogician
  One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window. Mystic 473 139458 November 12, 2017 at 7:57 pm
Last Post: bennyboy
  what are you ethics based on justin 50 25902 February 24, 2017 at 8:30 pm
Last Post: ignoramus
  My thoughts on the Hard problem of consciousness Won2blv 36 12446 February 15, 2017 at 7:27 am
Last Post: bennyboy



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)