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Current time: August 11, 2025, 10:02 am

Poll: Were you consistent concerning the number of lives you saved?
This poll is closed.
I was consistent: Same # of people lived/died in both experiments.
17.65%
3 17.65%
I was inconsistent: 5 died in one experiment, 1 died in the other.
82.35%
14 82.35%
Total 17 vote(s) 100%
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Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics
(January 26, 2018 at 11:34 am)SteveII Wrote: ...
That is an oversimplification which misses the mark by a long shot. 

First, a definition:

Intrinsic (from Mirriam Webster)
adjective
belonging to the essential nature or constitution of a thing 
Synonyms: built-in, constitutional, constitutive, essential, hardwired, immanent, inborn, inbred, indigenous, ingrain, ingrained (also engrained), innate, integral, inherent, native, natural

Foundational to Christian ethics is the sanctity of all human life. This is rooted in the belief that humans have intrinsic purpose and value because we are made in the image of God (Imago Dei). There is no intrinsic value of humans under a naturalist worldview. The distinction can be seen in your two scenarios and the ensuing discussions on them.

In the trolley scenario, acting or not acting are both choices with no clear moral superiority (even based on a Christian ethical model). In fact, I think the deciding factor as to whether someone does pull the lever is bravery to face the personal consequences. The "what-if" discussions on value to society of the lone man have nothing to do with it because the ethical foundation of Imago Dei and the entailing intrinsic value is way more important than utility. 

In the transplant scenario, taking an otherwise innocent life is morally objectionable based on the belief that all life has intrinsic value and we don't have a right to set that aside for some other purpose (even saving more lives). And again, any "what-if" discussions on the utility of those involved is irrelevant. 

I think that even most atheist in western society believe that individuals have intrinsic value (just for being human). This is not a conclusion from their worldview--but the influence Christianity has had on the culture for a millennium. That is one reason why people say the US was founded on Christian principles--because a lot of our views on freedom have to do with this issue.

What an excellent post! Thank you.

I'm working on an hypothesis of the 'Evolution of Contextual Morality' (contextual as opposed to intrinsic) and was struggling to articulate the logical errors made by the Intrinsicists (new word).

This post is going to be very useful for me as you've summarised the errors almost completely.

Cheers.
The PURPOSE of life is to replicate our DNA ................. (from Darwin)
The MEANING of life is the experience of living ... (from Frank Herbert)
The VALUE of life is the legacy we leave behind ..... (from observation)
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Messages In This Thread
Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by vulcanlogician - January 24, 2018 at 11:22 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Athene - January 24, 2018 at 11:34 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by vorlon13 - January 24, 2018 at 11:35 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by vulcanlogician - January 24, 2018 at 11:38 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by vorlon13 - January 26, 2018 at 9:46 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Longhorn - January 24, 2018 at 11:39 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by vulcanlogician - January 24, 2018 at 11:43 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Longhorn - January 24, 2018 at 11:47 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by paulpablo - January 24, 2018 at 11:46 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Magilla - January 26, 2018 at 10:35 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Athene - January 24, 2018 at 12:08 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Aegon - January 24, 2018 at 12:22 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by I_am_not_mafia - January 24, 2018 at 12:39 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Catholic_Lady - January 24, 2018 at 12:56 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SteveII - January 24, 2018 at 12:56 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Catholic_Lady - January 24, 2018 at 12:57 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by LastPoet - January 24, 2018 at 2:43 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SteveII - January 24, 2018 at 3:43 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SaStrike - January 24, 2018 at 6:36 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SaStrike - January 24, 2018 at 7:03 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Catholic_Lady - January 24, 2018 at 7:24 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SaStrike - January 24, 2018 at 7:36 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Catholic_Lady - January 24, 2018 at 11:49 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Athene - January 24, 2018 at 10:34 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SaStrike - January 24, 2018 at 6:26 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by vorlon13 - January 24, 2018 at 12:57 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by brewer - January 24, 2018 at 1:20 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Rev. Rye - January 24, 2018 at 11:16 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Catholic_Lady - January 24, 2018 at 1:27 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Catholic_Lady - January 24, 2018 at 1:52 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Aegon - January 24, 2018 at 1:48 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Longhorn - January 24, 2018 at 2:13 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by RoadRunner79 - January 24, 2018 at 3:03 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Athene - January 24, 2018 at 3:44 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by paulpablo - January 24, 2018 at 4:25 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by bennyboy - January 24, 2018 at 5:57 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SaStrike - January 24, 2018 at 6:07 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by vulcanlogician - January 25, 2018 at 11:43 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Haipule - January 24, 2018 at 9:17 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Cinjin - January 24, 2018 at 10:09 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Haipule - January 24, 2018 at 10:24 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by brewer - January 24, 2018 at 10:39 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Athene - January 24, 2018 at 10:45 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by chimp3 - January 24, 2018 at 10:45 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by chimp3 - January 24, 2018 at 10:52 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by bennyboy - January 24, 2018 at 11:25 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by bennyboy - January 25, 2018 at 12:27 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by chimp3 - January 24, 2018 at 11:44 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by chimp3 - January 25, 2018 at 12:09 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by DLJ - January 25, 2018 at 12:05 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by DodosAreDead - January 25, 2018 at 12:34 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Whateverist - January 25, 2018 at 2:49 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by bennyboy - January 25, 2018 at 3:42 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by bennyboy - January 25, 2018 at 9:03 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by bennyboy - January 25, 2018 at 9:41 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by DLJ - January 25, 2018 at 4:10 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by shadow - January 25, 2018 at 10:10 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Angrboda - January 25, 2018 at 10:29 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by polymath257 - January 25, 2018 at 11:50 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by vulcanlogician - January 25, 2018 at 11:59 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by polymath257 - January 25, 2018 at 12:29 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by vulcanlogician - January 25, 2018 at 12:45 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by polymath257 - January 25, 2018 at 1:35 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by shadow - January 25, 2018 at 7:51 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by bennyboy - January 25, 2018 at 8:58 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by polymath257 - January 25, 2018 at 1:59 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SteveII - January 26, 2018 at 11:34 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SteveII - January 28, 2018 at 2:53 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Grandizer - January 28, 2018 at 4:14 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Whateverist - January 26, 2018 at 12:28 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by vulcanlogician - January 26, 2018 at 12:39 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Whateverist - January 26, 2018 at 1:03 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by polymath257 - January 26, 2018 at 9:59 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Whateverist - January 26, 2018 at 12:32 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SaStrike - January 26, 2018 at 6:40 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SteveII - January 27, 2018 at 12:18 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SaStrike - January 27, 2018 at 1:17 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SteveII - January 27, 2018 at 2:34 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SaStrike - January 27, 2018 at 3:29 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SteveII - January 27, 2018 at 8:04 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Whateverist - January 28, 2018 at 3:42 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by DLJ - January 27, 2018 at 12:06 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SteveII - January 28, 2018 at 9:54 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by DLJ - January 28, 2018 at 11:32 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by bennyboy - January 28, 2018 at 8:40 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Amarok - January 28, 2018 at 7:43 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by bennyboy - January 30, 2018 at 5:29 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SaStrike - January 30, 2018 at 6:00 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SaStrike - January 30, 2018 at 6:25 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by bennyboy - January 30, 2018 at 6:28 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SaStrike - January 30, 2018 at 6:39 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by bennyboy - January 30, 2018 at 11:01 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Sal - January 30, 2018 at 9:20 am

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